Went to the track, dissapointed

blackstangt · Oct 5, 2009

Last time I went to the track, I ran a best of a 13.1 at 107 MPH.
This time I ran a best of 13.6 at 103 MPH.

Changes since I went to the track:
Much better tires (had all season tires)
Synthetic Oil
Gasket Matched my intake Manifold
Electric Fan (no clutch fan)

I ran a 13.4 with a 2.6 60' last time
I had a 2.19 60' this time

I am losing power from somewhere.
Possible Causes:
Different racetrack, higher elevation 50' VS 600'
Poor atmospheric conditions, calibrated altitude (elevation) of 2000'
Need a tune-up (plugs/wires/cap/rotor clean K&N)
That was a couple of years ago, possibly engine wear.

The real question is: How much power could I lose from a sea level racetrack to a 2000' racetrack?

blackstangt · Oct 5, 2009

SlowGT > Tech Stuff > Racers Math > Racers Math 2
According to this website, I was losing about 25 HP at the flywheel.
Is that enough to make a 4 MPH difference?

90 lx convert · Oct 5, 2009

New tires same overall height? The altitude will make a big difference but not sure as drastic as that. What about weight? Mike

90mustangGT · Oct 5, 2009

MPH good, ET does not match it. You have a problem digging out of the hole. 2.1 60ft? Beats 2.4 but that is not acceptable. Those Goodyears are great for some things, but they are some of the worse for launching. Way too firm and the rubber is hard. Get some Drag Radials and see what you are mssing.

Maryland Stang · Oct 6, 2009

You may have cost yourself a good amount of HP by gasket matching the manifold. If you did the intake to head ports there is now a very good chance you have a misalignment between the intake and head ports. The intake ports are usually smaller then the head ports and that's the way you want it unless you take a scope and match them up. Just bolting the intake down doesn't assure anything is lined up. You may need to try different thickness gaskets or rocking the intake to one side or the other or moving it foward or backward on the engine.

It's also the same way with the upper to lower. If you don't make sure those ports are perfectly lined up then you could have intake manifold material hanging out into the flow of air and that is way worse than having smaller ports.

blackstangt · Oct 10, 2009

90 lx convert. said:
New tires same overall height? The altitude will make a big difference but not sure as drastic as that. What about weight? Mike

Tires are the same height. I really didn't prepare the car well for the track, because I wasn't planning on going until the night before. I should have cleaned the K&N, checked the plugs/wires/cap/rotor and made sure the timing was still good.

I'll go to a different track and work on my launch, I really only got 3 runs. The tires hooked other than chirping 2nd and 3rd.

blackstangt · Oct 10, 2009

90mustangGT said:
MPH good, ET does not match it. You have a problem digging out of the hole. 2.1 60ft? Beats 2.4 but that is not acceptable. Those Goodyears are great for some things, but they are some of the worse for launching. Way too firm and the rubber is hard. Get some Drag Radials and see what you are mssing.

I want to see how fast it is with the equipment I drive it with. It's my daily driver. The car hooked, so I wasn't launching hard enough, I didn't get enough runs to do better, which I will do next time. The question is whether that elevation or equivalent elevation of 2000 ft would cause a loss of 4 MPH. I ran a 13.4 with a 2.6 60' the first time also, so the car should easily go 12s and not slower with a lower 60' time.

The tires are great compared to the old ones, and didn't spin when I got the 2.1 60' so I'm more concerned with my 4MPH loss.

blackstangt · Oct 10, 2009

Maryland Stang said:
You may have cost yourself a good amount of HP by gasket matching the manifold. If you did the intake to head ports there is now a very good chance you have a misalignment between the intake and head ports. The intake ports are usually smaller then the head ports and that's the way you want it unless you take a scope and match them up. Just bolting the intake down doesn't assure anything is lined up. You may need to try different thickness gaskets or rocking the intake to one side or the other or moving it foward or backward on the engine.

It's also the same way with the upper to lower. If you don't make sure those ports are perfectly lined up then you could have intake manifold material hanging out into the flow of air and that is way worse than having smaller ports.

I checked the alignment by compressing the gasket in a test-fit first, there should be no overlap.
The upper to lower was not ported, there is no room to do so on this manifold. I cleaned out much of the casting that was left in the manifold though, which should have increased flow.
The old lower gasket, which I had when I ran the 13.1 was blocking flow, so I made sure to trim it around the intake port on the head this time. The port on the head is significantly larger than the one on the intake manifold, so this should all be a non-issue.

54deuce · Oct 12, 2009

blackstangt said:
Last time I went to the track, I ran a best of a 13.1 at 107 MPH.
This time I ran a best of 13.6 at 103 MPH.

Changes since I went to the track:
Much better tires (had all season tires)
Synthetic Oil
Gasket Matched my intake Manifold
Electric Fan (no clutch fan)

I ran a 13.4 with a 2.6 60' last time
I had a 2.19 60' this time

I am losing power from somewhere.
Possible Causes:
Different racetrack, higher elevation 50' VS 600'
Poor atmospheric conditions, calibrated altitude (elevation) of 2000'
Need a tune-up (plugs/wires/cap/rotor clean K&N)
That was a couple of years ago, possibly engine wear.

The real question is: How much power could I lose from a sea level racetrack to a 2000' racetrack?

The electric fan puts a big strain on the alt when its running. The only way to get the best out of it is with the fan off on the run and then turn it on after. If its automatic it will just come on and off and it does effect times this happened to my friend. The fans drain alot of juice. Just a thought.

RsStanG1987 · Oct 12, 2009

How did you do the porting? If you did it with a dremel or something simmilar you could of messed up. i Bought a set of p heads a kid ported himself and it cost me 200 to get em ported the right way even though the work he did looked good.

90lxcoupe · Oct 12, 2009

theres only 2 things that are gonna get you into the 12's here

1. Bolt some slicks on
2.Dont drive like a girl

blackstangt · Oct 12, 2009

90lxcoupe said:
theres only 2 things that are gonna get you into the 12's here

1. Bolt some slicks on
2.Dont drive like a girl

retard

blackstangt · Oct 12, 2009

54deuce said:
The electric fan puts a big strain on the alt when its running. The only way to get the best out of it is with the fan off on the run and then turn it on after. If its automatic it will just come on and off and it does effect times this happened to my friend. The fans drain alot of juice. Just a thought.

not on during my runs

blackstangt · Oct 12, 2009

RsStanG1987 said:
How did you do the porting? If you did it with a dremel or something simmilar you could of messed up. i Bought a set of p heads a kid ported himself and it cost me 200 to get em ported the right way even though the work he did looked good.

How did you know the heads were messed up from his work if it "looked good"?
I mostly sanded out the metal casting from the upper. The gasket was trimmed around the still much larger head ports, so there would be no problems. The heads were untouched, I did use a dremel to match up the lower intake port, but the material I removed was then sanded after to ensure that there were no horizontal grooves as there were prior to the work.

I am going to guess that it's the atmosphere and need of a tune up. With a sub 2 sec 60' and 107 trap, it will go as fast as I want it to. I'll find out soon enough.

bentley429isBAC · Oct 12, 2009

blackstangt said:
retard

Why is he a retard? Why not try what the guy says?

2000xp8 · Oct 12, 2009

While i don't know numbers, the altitude was certainly going to slow your car down.

Porting the intake to a gasket is pretty much worthless.
The E fan doesn't do anything either, i've seen it tested first hand, but i've stopped saying here, because nobody really seems to care.

If i was you i'd lose the typhoon intake for a cobra, ditch the C&L for a PMAS or old pro m.
And give it another go.

For anyone that doesn't thing a Gt40x crate engine car can run well, i have a friend who went 11.86@116 (slicks) with a gt40x, e cam, real gt40 intake, 65mm tb/spacer and a pro m with 24's setup on a stock 302.
Only work was a valve job on the heads, which is a must because the guys at ford do a crappy job.

Keep in mind the driver, while not a professional, had and has hundreds of runs.

clement · Oct 12, 2009

are you 1000% sure the ports are not misaligned when its bolted up? if you smooth the intake too much you screw up the boundery layer. some of the best engine builders on the planet will tell you that gasket makers arent port designers.

a good way to figure out if the lower is screwed is to put an OOTB lower back on it.

the NHRA correction factor for 1900' corrects that 13.60@103 to 13.30@105.3 at sea level.

blackstangt · Oct 12, 2009

2000xp8 said:
While i don't know numbers, the altitude was certainly going to slow your car down.

Porting the intake to a gasket is pretty much worthless.
The E fan doesn't do anything either, i've seen it tested first hand, but i've stopped saying here, because nobody really seems to care.

If i was you i'd lose the typhoon intake for a cobra, ditch the C&L for a PMAS or old pro m.
And give it another go.

For anyone that doesn't thing a Gt40x crate engine car can run well, i have a friend who went 11.86@116 (slicks) with a gt40x, e cam, real gt40 intake, 65mm tb/spacer and a pro m with 24's setup on a stock 302.
Only work was a valve job on the heads, which is a must because the guys at ford do a crappy job.

Keep in mind the driver, while not a professional, had and has hundreds of runs.

At least you adressed my actual question, first too, thanks.

The E-fan is a non-issue.

The typhoon was making good power, but I didn't have traction.

If the valves were seated improperly, there would be compression issues, although 1.7 Roller Rockers couldn't hurt.

That sounds like a fast car for an NA setup, not knowing the weight or other mods doesn't give me any more confidence in the power created.

blackstangt · Oct 12, 2009

Just thought of something else, my trap speed should be faster than 107MPH, I was wheel hopping through 1st before...

Again, I'll have to wait until I go to a Sea Level track to find out if I have some unknown issue.

clement · Oct 12, 2009

blackstangt said:
If the valves were seated improperly, there would be compression issues,

they can be screwed up enough to hurt power but still not leak down. it has been said by some very knowledgeable people (the guys who dont build street engines) that most important part of the head is the intake valve seat.

Went to the track, dissapointed

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