what block would you get?

82CapriRS · Jan 19, 2009

ok, like most of you guys, i keep lookin at all these performance mods an keep seein dss or chp an all these engine blocks but what one is actually worth it? i mean if you guys had about $2000, what block would you get? would the R302 block be a good choice or does it require more machining and other add ons to equal some rediculous amount of money b4 you can slap h/c/i on it? i ask this question because now that i have heads, intake, bigger carb and a nitrous kit that can spray 300 shot..it would be pretty cool to have all of that together ha. anyone who has an aftermarket block please gimme your thoughts, what block you have an what kinda money it took for it to be dropped in the car. my mods are in my sig and on top of that i have:

Zex regulated bottle heater, Dynotune dual purge, Summit digital rpm window switch, FMS aluminum d/s, RHS200cc heads, RPM air gap (maybe get it ported), Holley 650 dp, and comp cam XE282HR. I plan on 342 stroker which for those of you who dont know its a 347 but without the bore and about 10:1 compression.

LS-what? · Jan 19, 2009

Well I have a 69 351w the strongest stock block stroked to a 410W I'm going to spin it to 7200 rpm on motor looking to go low tens on motor. But if I could do it all over again I would've just bought the dart block and be done with it. Trust me me its cheaper. I've got a dart iron eagle for when this one goes(hint hint I said WHEN NOT IF)..lol. Then Im going 438 4.125 bore yates or TFS "R" headed all motor trying for mid 8's on motor...

So if I were u go to nmra.com or racingjunk.com look for a A4, R302, OR Dart Iron Eagle..not dart sportman and just so u know times are hard right so if u got the cash right u can score big time...ask me how i know...

Later

82CapriRS · Jan 19, 2009

how do you know?? lol. who do you know? haha. i bought an 89 lx that i got dirt cheap so the plan was to fix the small things wrong with it an make bank on it. then buy a block. thats why im askin around. always thought bout gettin a dss but i dont wanna have the chance of wasting that kinda of money an it blowing just like a stocker.

bentley429 · Jan 19, 2009

All those level 10! level 64.8! level 23! are junk. Stock block garbage. Basicly any aftermarket block is good. If you can get a killer deal on a A4, R302 something like that it will work fine. BUT dart is the way to go. The man-o-war block is very good also, but I haven't compared them to darts enough yet.

82CapriRS · Jan 19, 2009

well, i dont think i will have a 1000hp. so to spend crazy money on a dart or boss block might be not only out of my budget but to crazy if thats possible. whats the A4? comparable to the R302? anyone know if the R block need machining in order to use it for a stroker? dart make a block around $1500 or so that would be good enough for say 600-700rwhp? I havent heard good enough things about the motorsport B50 block and actually just read somewhere that the hp rating went down from ford which is kinda scary/bs. i always had either a turbo(later on in life) or 300 shot with nitrous controller in mind. would like to think that with a 342 stroker, RHS 200cc heads, XE282hr comp cam, ported air gap and a nicely tuned 650 holley or demon at 10:1 or so compression should put about 400rwhp.

bentley429 · Jan 19, 2009

Yes a A4 is similar to a R302. Trust me if your thinking about going bigger just do the block now, you will be saving in the long run. REALLY wish thats what I did. 400 rwhp is nothing to sneeze at, but you will end up wanting more already talking turbo or nitrous. Any aftermarket block will handle 1000+ hp fine. The ford sportsman is a stock block, junk waste of money. If you want a turbo do some research and settle around 9:1. If nitrous, please do more then 10:1.

GroverDill · Jan 19, 2009

After 3 combo's and pushing a stock block to just over 540 rwhp I finally got the Dart Iron Eagle. You will always want more.

LS-what? · Jan 19, 2009

bentley429 said:
All those level 10! level 64.8! level 23! are junk. Stock block garbage. Basicly any aftermarket block is good. If you can get a killer deal on a A4, R302 something like that it will work fine. BUT dart is the way to go. The man-o-war block is very good also, but I haven't compared them to darts enough yet.

Look at it like this I bought my
69 block for $200
Rotating assembly 1550
machine work roughly 800
assemble shotblock 350
oil pan swap 235 used
girdle 200
degree my cam 125
mabye 250 in gaskets
For a grand total of $3,710.00

Now when you split that stock block u gotta more than likely buy everthing over and 9 times out of 10 u will upgrade internals so ur looking @ atleast $7,420.00 if u buy a unmachined block and plus up grades.

But if u would've saved and spend the money once u can get R302, A4, and even some Dart shortblocks allday long for 3500-4500. Like I said check Nmra or Racingjunk.

FastDriver · Jan 19, 2009

I keep an excel spreadsheet with minute details about my install and a running total of what I have spent on my car. Here's what I paid for the block and machining. I honestly never shopped around on the machine work. I have no idea if I got ripped on that or not.

Dart IE 302 block (2399), Shipping (85)

align hone Dart block on all 5 mains (180), Deck block parallel to mains, bore and torque plate hone cylinders, hot tank, cam bearings and core plugs replaced, oil holes tapped and plugged (550)

It sounds like you don't want to put that kind of money into it, and you can definitely get away for 1000-1500 cheaper if you get a used aftermarket block. These are the blocks you should consider if you want to stay 302W-based:

Ford: R302, A4, Boss (new), Boss (old - not likely to get your hands on this block, and it is not as stout as the others)

Dart (Sportsman, Iron Eagle)

World Products: Man 'o War

Go used and save a lot, but do not skimp on the machine work. Take it to a reputable shop and have them check and recheck EVERYTHING. Do not buy a Ford sportsman block (B50). This is no better a block than a stocker.

If you want to make more than 500 rwhp, then build an aftermarket block. Do it right once, and you'll have a better and cheaper motor than doing it wrong more than once.

Also, in drag racing, there's no replacement for displacement. You should highly consider a 351W based aftermarket block if you're going to build from scratch. I didn't do this because the 302W is more compact and versatile (will fit in any car any other V8 will fit in. Plus, I can always run a bigger turbo and more rpm if I want more in the future. As it is, I will have more power than is sane to have on the street. If you're building from scratch, building a 351W will always be more power for less money than the same amount of power from a 302. I can't help you with those blocks though, because I've never played with them.

Chris

82CapriRS · Jan 20, 2009

thanks guys, i have been tryin to find an A4 block but no such luck, not even on fords site?? i have found the R block and the boss. So far i would say of what even you guys have said, the R block would be the best choice for me as its around what i wanna spend, and its gonna handle the power im gonna make an then some. im gonna do some more research an try to find the A4 block an think about it good. As for the compression, i dont think i can really run more then 10:1 because i have iron heads...and wanna run on pump gas with no problems as im gonna drive this car whenever i want on the street. Also, finding a good machinists around me is gonna suck, the only one i knew that my family used is now out of business. i know OF another one an apparently he is good but charges alot an idk anyone with personal experiance. im in north jersey if anyone knows any machinists around my area

90lxcoupe · Jan 20, 2009

FastDriver said:
Also, in drag racing, there's no replacement for displacement. You should highly consider a 351W based aftermarket block if you're going to build from scratch. I didn't do this because the 302W is more compact and versatile (will fit in any car any other V8 will fit in. Plus, I can always run a bigger turbo and more rpm if I want more in the future. As it is, I will have more power than is sane to have on the street. If you're building from scratch, building a 351W will always be more power for less money than the same amount of power from a 302. I can't help you with those blocks though, because I've never played with them.

Chris

this is an excellent point, and there is no reason not to build a BIG motor, it will cost just as much to build a 331/347/363 as a 408/427/466. plan on spending 12-15k if you do it right the FIRST time. Stuff adds up quick.

My suggestion would be to buy the block now, cause they arent going to get any cheaper, and piece it together while your car is togehter and running. then when your new motor is ready you can just drop it in, and it wont hit your wallet as hard as buying the motor in one shot...

EDIT: If you look around you can find awesome deals on stuff, keep your eye out on CORRAL.NET and THERTURBOFORUMS.NET, they always have somebody selling a dart or r-block on there. a few weeks ago there was a guy on theturboforums selling a complete dart shortblock for $3500 that made 1200rwhp... which was a killer deal, if i had the cash i would have bought it.

90lxcoupe · Jan 20, 2009

1200 RWHP R302 shortblock 4 sale that's built for boost there is a link to that motor i was talking about... If you have the money, consider that as a option all the machine work is done, and the internals could have survived hiroshima

82CapriRS · Jan 20, 2009

to have that shortblock listed above would be better then bad***, BUT i dont have that kinda money right now. sucks, if i already fixed an sold the 89, i would have a way better chance of somethin like that. but i honestly never see my car makin that much power. there comes time where, atleast for me, i think theres just to much power for a daily drivin street car. somethin that will hold 900-1000hp is plenty for me. i mean, i see these vids of trevor's (i believe thats his name) from turbomustangs in his red gt, he had 725 rwhp an was pulling with 1000cc street bikes. thats F*****G FAST! right around there, maybe a tad more is where i would stop. its not like now where my car is mid-high 13s an its slow. trevors car trapped 141 i believe. thats stupid fast for a street car an perfect if you ask me.

Shaolin Crane · Jan 21, 2009

DART IRON EAGLE FTW, i got mine for 1000 bucks

FastDriver · Jan 21, 2009

That would be TrentK, the owner of theturboforums.com He's driving a supra now It was a nice setup he had goin', though.

Chris

82CapriRS said:
to have that shortblock listed above would be better then bad***, BUT i dont have that kinda money right now. sucks, if i already fixed an sold the 89, i would have a way better chance of somethin like that. but i honestly never see my car makin that much power. there comes time where, atleast for me, i think theres just to much power for a daily drivin street car. somethin that will hold 900-1000hp is plenty for me. i mean, i see these vids of trevor's (i believe thats his name) from turbomustangs in his red gt, he had 725 rwhp an was pulling with 1000cc street bikes. thats F*****G FAST! right around there, maybe a tad more is where i would stop. its not like now where my car is mid-high 13s an its slow. trevors car trapped 141 i believe. thats stupid fast for a street car an perfect if you ask me.

82CapriRS · Jan 21, 2009

yeah, that guy had one hell of a fox. ive watched his videos so many times and im still not sick of them. As for what block, ive been lookin into the R block but if i found a good deal on a dart or boss i would go for it of course. im guessing the R is god for over 1000hp? anyone know? ive been to fords page but they dont put a rating on it. Going to say, maybe a 351 block i would have to change alot though right? like brackets, motor mounts, headers, intake would work if it had the same deck height as 302? but if i went that way i would probably have to get my RHS 200cc heads ported right? maybe sell them an get the 215s? i think goin the 351 route i would be changing to a budget thats to big for me. i mean i have my stock motor in the car but it would still take me most if not all of the summer to get all the parts, so it would be next year to put it in. so many options its rediculous lol. i want between 400-500 rwhp without it being a big hassle to drive on the street. i thought of a solid roller but huge cams like that dont make it to streetable. then again, i have always wanted to spin my motor up to about 7500-8000rpm so maybe now is the time to do it since the R block can handle it unlike the stocker.

FastDriver · Jan 21, 2009

It's not really solid rollers that make cams less streetable, though many will tell you that they do require more maintenance than hydros (checking lash, and adjustments, periodically). It seems to me that it's the high-revving aspect that makes cams less streetable. High overlap, long duration, short LSA cams seem to pull less vacuum and lope harder around idle speeds. I'm not saying what you should or shouldn't do with your car, but if I were building a streetable fun car, it would not have such a cam in it.

I told you that I'm the wrong guy when it comes to 351 advice, but I'll give it a shot. I suspect that 200cc heads would be fine at 351 actual cubes, but if you went to a 408 stroker, they'd probably be a pretty tight fit, especially if you're planning to rev it. You could still get away with them for a lower RPM street car. No comment on the budget part, as I've never done it.

About the R blocks: I've never heard of one breaking due to power alone. You'd be a bad MFer to split one of those on power alone.

Now it seems to me you're changing your story a little. Here you say 400-500 rwhp is all you want, and in that case, keep your stocker and stroke it out. That's a realistic possibility with the stocker and you'll be able to run that power safely. Going beyond that 500 rwhp mark is hazardous with the stock block, though. Earlier when you were talking about 300 shots of nitrous and 600-700 rwhp, the recommendation for such a combo was the aftermarket 302 block or a 351W block, and the recommendation was appropriate for those circumstances. Here's some general advice: if you're not sure where you're going to end up, do it right once rather than wrong several times. That way you'll end up with more, sooner, and with less long-term expense.

Do not spin a stock blocked 302 or stroker variant to the 7500-8000 rpm range. They will not take this kind of abuse. I know of a guy who, with a neutral balanced rotating assembly, was unable to spin the stocker to 7800 rpm without crank-walk. He had severe problems with stock rotating assembly taking it to 7300 rpm. He was turning damn good times for what it was, though.

Hope some of this helps,

Chris

82CapriRS said:
yeah, that guy had one hell of a fox. ive watched his videos so many times and im still not sick of them. As for what block, ive been lookin into the R block but if i found a good deal on a dart or boss i would go for it of course. im guessing the R is god for over 1000hp? anyone know? ive been to fords page but they dont put a rating on it. Going to say, maybe a 351 block i would have to change alot though right? like brackets, motor mounts, headers, intake would work if it had the same deck height as 302? but if i went that way i would probably have to get my RHS 200cc heads ported right? maybe sell them an get the 215s? i think goin the 351 route i would be changing to a budget thats to big for me. i mean i have my stock motor in the car but it would still take me most if not all of the summer to get all the parts, so it would be next year to put it in. so many options its rediculous lol. i want between 400-500 rwhp without it being a big hassle to drive on the street. i thought of a solid roller but huge cams like that dont make it to streetable. then again, i have always wanted to spin my motor up to about 7500-8000rpm so maybe now is the time to do it since the R block can handle it unlike the stocker.

82CapriRS · Jan 22, 2009

first off, id like to thank for all and any advice. as for the story changing, well like i said i bought a cheap fox that i will turn around for a pretty penny. that being said this is why it changed a lil. before thinkin about makin money on this new fox, i was gonna use the stock block an is also why i put my goal at 400-500 rwhp. i do know that that would be tough on the block an wouldnt last to long, basically livin on borrowed time. then i put it all together an figured since im makin money on this car, that i should do the block the right way, and meet some goals i have had for awhile now. the goals are to be able to spin hight rpm an not have to worry about the stock block lettin go like you stated above. gettin the R block an matchin internals i figure solid cam an not to crazy of lift, maybe around the 600 lift range would bring me around the shift point of 7400 or so rpms. either 200cc heads or i can trade em in for the 215 cc versions. im puttin alot of thought into an with help from my uncles who have built alot of motors. its not gonna happen overnight lol

FastDriver · Jan 22, 2009

Good luck, man. We love hearing about builds so keep us up on it.... Pictures help to!

Chris

9350coupe · Jan 22, 2009

well i choose a dart. Hope i made the right decision the "first" time

hope pics attach

what block would you get?

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