What can I expect from this engine combo?

superhuaman · Jan 7, 2006

It's not built yet, so there's time to steer me in the right direction.
306 stock block / crank
Eagle steel I beam rods
Speed Pro forged pistons 9.5:1 (stock I think)
Melling high volume oil pump
FRPP E cam / 1.6 rockers
AFR 165 heads (or should I use 185's) with EGR
Typhoon intake (cheaper than the Performer and nearly the same)
70mm BBK TB/EGR spacer
80mm C&L mass air meter
A9P computer
30# injectors & stock rail
255lph fuel pump & Aeromotive AFPR

It's gonna sit in front of an AOD and 3.73's in a 90 notch (the car in my sig). But I'm only looking for theoretical flywheel horsepower, I can calculate the rest I think. I have everything except the heads, rockers, intake, and computer.

So what do you think I can do with this N/A? I may add a supercharger in a couple years but it can't be too radical because of the stock compression ratio.

N8Miller · Jan 8, 2006

with those mods, please dont use the E cam. While it may be affordable and proven, there are some better cams out there (for only $50-100 more) that will make it worth your money. The Comp Cams XE line with the 268 or 274 would work much better. The TFS line cams would probably do better with the stage 2 camshaft.

But the way it sits, 320 to the wheels would be about right. Also, use a 75mm throttle body.

Use the 185 heads if your looking for more peak power. And while the Typhoon might be a similar product at a cheaper price, i have heard a few stories about them that arent too friendly.

DMAN302 · Jan 8, 2006

I will be a nice set up..I would also go with a different cam. Though I am partial to the XE line you may want to look at a custom..to help with the AOD in place and work up some bottom end. It will be a nice @ or around 300 RW power car when it's dialed in...good choices other than the cam IMO.

growler · Jan 8, 2006

If it were me I'd go with the 185's and a custom cam.

stang302v8 · Jan 8, 2006

can anyone estimate my setup? its in the sig...

Topdowncruise · Jan 8, 2006

Concensus when the 185 vs.165 comes up on this forum is that the 185's are too much head for a 302/306.More peak power with the 185's but 165's would be better if you value daily driveablity.The 30 lb. injectors seem to be overkill.

DMAN302 · Jan 8, 2006

275-285 with a decent tune..that's again another setup where the cam is not ideal for the combination of parts..particularly the AOD...try to pick parts that will work together with each other making power where it's best for your driving habits.

N8Miller · Jan 8, 2006

Con, the 185s would make more optimum power. With the right custom cam, you wont lose any driveability and will make the power for the setup. However, if yoiu wanna go 185s, the Typhoon intake might not be the best either. If thats the case, go with the RPM2 or TFS R intake.

Do it once, do it right!

2002BLGT · Jan 8, 2006

AFR 165s //stay with cobra intake , this will allow you to run a smaller stall
AFR 185s //typhoon will work fine but you will want a 3200RPM stall
either way the trickflow stage 2 cam would be better than a E with either setup

24 lbs injectors should be enough for either combo......

superhuaman · Jan 8, 2006

Ok, I'd rather have the GT40 or Cobra intake than the Typhoon anyway. But, do I really need a 75mm throttle body? I thought the manifold would need to be opened WAY up for that.

I hope I don't get flamed for this, but:
I read an magazine article about a stock 302 short block (yes, including the cam) with 1.7 rockers, afr 165's and tri-y headers. i know it was carb'd, but it made 400 fwhp.
I wish i could do the same with efi. So i figured why not use an e-cam, it has more lift so i can use the 1.6 rockers.

Yes I know the 30# injectors are a bit big, but they were actually cheaper, because everyone's going after the 24# ones. And if i were to actually make that much power, i'd need the 30's.

N8Miller · Jan 8, 2006

i highly doubt that a stock cammed NA motor made 400fwhp.

anyway, the reason that i said that you should go with a 75 mm throttle body is to feed those 185s. if you go 165s, stay wtih a 70mm and a gt40 intake. Try spending the money on a custom cam, you wont regret it.

5spd GT · Jan 8, 2006

superhuaman - Yeah carcraft I believe did that test but that was with no accessories and I believe it didn't even have a drivetrain (tranny) to it...

Anyways, the 165's will work just fine...Stick with them...

If you have the extra money get a custom cam or "similar" (more beefy)...but if not the E cam will do you fine.

You will probably have around 280rwhp.

Good Luck!

superhuaman · Jan 9, 2006

Awesome, thanks guys!
:SNSign:
Ok so I'm going to use the AFR 165's or similar, and a GT40 intake.
So will the 30# injectors be too much of a problem? They might be too big but the MAF is calibrated for them, and I can adjust the fuel pressure...

DMAN302 · Jan 9, 2006

You may have some driveability issues..some do some don't.

5spd GT · Jan 9, 2006

I have 30lbers with no tune and drive it daily. It drives fine for my needs but does cause to much cranking fuel which causes some hot start issues and it smells a bit rich but runs fine overall.

$uperstang · Jan 9, 2006

Stick with AFR 165 for a 306 and the injectors should be 24's but you can still use 30's just may have issues at idle. Don't get a C&L meter get a Pro-M meter you will have less isues. Get a trickflow stage one cam it has a little more power then the E cam but perfect for an AOD stay away from stage 2, it's too much cam for an AOD street car. The main thing also is the intake cobra or GT40 are good Eddlebrock performer or RPM 2 are even better. Also with the ADO you need to get a stall converter if you want the thing to launch hard. That is the AOD's downfall you need a stall converter. It all depends on what gear cam and engine mods you have and what you want to use it for. Don't just get one someon is recommending. Call Andre at Edge racing the best converters money can buy and a little less then some of them out there you will be looking at about $530 for one from Edge but well worth the money. Also you need a Shift kit preferably Transgo. The thing here is concentrate on making that AOD Launch with low end power and the rest of the motor will take over! With the set-up You list you should be at about 275rwhp

superhuaman · Jan 9, 2006

Thanks for all your help. I realize I didn't say anything about the AOD I have. It has a TCI rebuild kit with valve body mod included. It also has a TCI hardened input shaft, and a B&M 2000 stall lockup converter.

I'm not changing the cam cuz the short block is already together.
I can't switch to 24# injectors because of the 80mm MAF sensor. It only works with 30#, 36/38#, or 42#.
I don't like Pro-M because they're not made anymore, they have to be sent out to be calibrated, and they're too frickin expensive.

304billet · Jan 10, 2006

Ported AFR 165's from FTI, Comp Cam XE274HR, RPM ll port matched, 24lbers, 65mmTB, 70mm MAF. PMAS took over Pro M. Check AFM for their addy. U could always sell the MAF and get the correct one w/ the right injector size. Now that's a bad mo-fo 306.

E-cam been there done that. Change that E-cam now or u WILL change it later, ur choice. My experience has been do it right the first time and don't be cheap. Racing is not cheap. I had over $15,000 in a 347 all 4340 forged stroker and periphals and 25,000 miles later it had 4 cracked piston rings, crank needed turned down 10/10, lifters were frozen, Isky cam scored. This was because the previous engine builder did not know what he was doing. Sold it to an engine builder for $4000 and he refreshed it changed the cam XE282HR, ported the AFR 185's, ported Downs lower, 30lbers and he put down 400/400 @ the RW NA on pump gas w/ 10.3:1 comp. Morale is do ur own research on parts and builders and u get what u pay for.

superhuaman · Apr 18, 2006

bump

and now ive added svo gt40 (not gt40x) alum heads and crane 1.6 pedestal roller rockers (stock on 95 cobra)

2002BLGT · Apr 28, 2006

superhuaman said:
bump

and now ive added svo gt40 (not gt40x) alum heads and crane 1.6 pedestal roller rockers (stock on 95 cobra)

cobras had 1.7s but that would work better with your E cam anyway , more lift for those heads ......I hope you went with cobra or GT40 style intake .....typhoon would suck with automatic because you would lose alot of lower end torque .......and get those heads milled about 20 thousandths before you put them on to raise the compression a little bit .....

What can I expect from this engine combo?

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