What kind of welder do I need?

#22
lauras70mach1 said:
Hobart handler 180.

Use the gas, flux core sucks.
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:lol: :lol: LOVE mine.
0to100to0 said:
i've done some welding but i've decided not to weld in my front and rear suspension systems from martz chassis. i think this kind of stuff is best left to a true professional, even though i do have some welding experience. i have found a lot of use out of a 110 machine, but i do wish i had one that ran on 220 as well. although, you kind of need both because you cannot weld sheet metal with a 220.

matt
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That is incorrect my Hobart 180 has a wider range than any 110 volt welders I have seen it will go lower as well as higher due to a better transformer. The voltage does not determine the welding ability of a welder it is the current and most 230 volt welders have a wider current range. When I was looking at a welder I searched all over for information and this is what I learned.
1. Gas good flux sucks. Having tried both I agree hold hardly
2. Get the biggest welder you can afford because you will use it on things you never thought you would. Again I have found that to be the case
3. Get and auto darkening helmet. Truly the best thing since sliced bread.
4. While portable they are heavy get a cart. Yep if you have shop room you cant beat them (try harbor freight they usually have one on sale)
5. Bigger the welder the longer the duty cycle at low current. (The last thing you wont to do is be forced to take a break while he welder cools. I have not had this problem on the Hobart because I usually weld sheet metal and it has 100% at the current)
6. Hobart, Miller Lincoln get the one you like. They all have good quality so look for one with the price and features you like.
7. Get the big cylinder. I have a 125-cf tank and it is about right for me I also have a 25 and it is way to small I spent a lot of time exchanging it.
8. By the cylinder if you can. Some stats wont allow this but it make exchanging it more flexible if you lease the tank from one company then that is the only one that will fill it for you but if you have proof of ownership then they will fill/ exchange it with out a problem.
The advantages to the 110 units is price and that a plug in is easy to find any 15-amp circuit will do. Disadvantage is less flexibility and control. The advantage to the 230 is the power and flexibility you can weld some real big stuff on one pass and they have more control. The disadvantages are 230 requires a 230 outlet and you will have to wire the shop for 230 or run and extension cord to the dryer or range for power and of course they cost more.

When I got mine tractor supply had a great deal on it. I was in there this weekend and they had a Hobart 140 for a pretty god price.
 
#24
0to100to0 said:
i built a rotisserie for my mustang and i would not use a 110 machine for that thick tubing. you are simply not laying enough material down to make a good weld (when you weld tubing together you don't have the priviledge of welding from both sides.
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If you are trying to weld tubing with more than 1/4" thick wall, I agree.

The plans I've downloaded use 3/16" wall steel, which I believe can be welded with 110 just fine.
 
#25
At Airgas here in OKC, when you 'lease' the tank, they tell you you actually own it, your just swapping it out and the extra price is for having the cylinder pressure tested. I don't think it's legal to own your own tanks here anymore (not sure), and if you do (or did), you don't swap them out, you get your tank refilled as it's yours and they're not going to take the hickey getting your tank recertified, therefore it takes a lot longer to get it refilled. I only have two options, I think, here locally to get them refilled and the prices are about the same, Airgas is where I bought my Miller, and they're about 5 miles from my work.

I bought a big spool of wire (20#?) at Harbor Freight for $20 so I wouldn't have to mess with the 5# spools from Home Depot and Lowes.
 
#27
1320stang said:
At Airgas here in OKC, when you 'lease' the tank, they tell you you actually own it, your just swapping it out and the extra price is for having the cylinder pressure tested. I don't think it's legal to own your own tanks here anymore (not sure), and if you do (or did), you don't swap them out, you get your tank refilled as it's yours and they're not going to take the hickey getting your tank recertified, therefore it takes a lot longer to get it refilled. I only have two options, I think, here locally to get them refilled and the prices are about the same, Airgas is where I bought my Miller, and they're about 5 miles from my work.

I bought a big spool of wire (20#?) at Harbor Freight for $20 so I wouldn't have to mess with the 5# spools from Home Depot and Lowes.
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Here we have NexAir, AirGas, Lindi and others and that allows me to shop around they will fill your tank for a couple of dollars more or exchange it. I like the fill because I have a new tank and it is unmarked keeping me out of the “I won’t fill my competitor” situation. And most of the exchange cylinders I have seen are with in a couple of years from the pressure check date. It also would allow me to move or get it filled somewhere that does not have that brand. We also have tractor supply that will exchange it as well. My plan is to keep it until it is close to needing pressure testing and exchange it. Remember if you are going to exchange a cylinder do it BEFORE the pressure check date some place will not exchange an out of date tank.
As far as wire I use 2# and 10# spools of wire 10# are cheaper per pound but you have to be careful that you use them before they rust while in the welder. I like .024 wire for sheet metal I have looked for .023 but have not been able to find it locally. I also keep 2# spools of .030 and .035 solid and .030 flux just in case I need it. I store it in a sealed container with desiccant.
 
#28
Yeah, I think mine are 10# spools and the small are 2#. We now have one 10# of .023" and one of .030", we got them both at Harbor Freight.

As far as rusting, the spool of flux core (.035") we got with the welder 8 or so years ago still hasn't shown any rust on it. But, both he and I have insulated garages and my A/C system is in a closet in my garage near where the welder is stored when I'm not using it.

One other tip I want to let everyone know, don't step, or run over the lead that runs from the unit to the gun. You can crimp the liner in it and the wire will tend to jamb up. I was told that by my chassis builder friend. I'm not sure what is wrong with ours, I think it may be where it comes out of the hard 'plug' where it goes into the front of the unit. But if I don't have the unit a bit away from whatever I'm welding on the wire won't feed. I think it comes from bringing the lead back around to the back of the unit and draping it over the regulator and back over the top of the unit.
 
#29
1320stang said:
I'm not sure what is wrong with ours, I think it may be where it comes out of the hard 'plug' where it goes into the front of the unit. But if I don't have the unit a bit away from whatever I'm welding on the wire won't feed. I think it comes from bringing the lead back around to the back of the unit and draping it over the regulator and back over the top of the unit.
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Have you removed the lead and blown it out with compressed air the wire will leave wire dust as it passes thought and this needs to be blown out from time to time as part of regular maintenance. There are some pads that you can get that go between the spool and tensioning device that will help with this as well. As for rust I have not had a problem but I have found rusted wire in stores.
 
#30
man..there is a lot of disagreeing information here. So I will add mine :D

I have a Miller 175 230v machine. I paid about $700 for it from a place online. You can get them pretty cheap at cyberweld.com and it comes with free shipping (sometimes they ahve a free cart too)

110 or 230v - There is nothing on a car where you will need a 230v welder. I dont care if its a 1ton dually frame or a 1/4 panel. There isnt anything that is over 1/4" thick metal. Our mustang framerails are less than 1/8" something like 16 gauge steel. Any welder can weld that. Sheetmetal on the car is the same. I started doing this old car resto as a job and never found anythign that really needed to weld 1/4" steel. I have a home built rotisserie made of 3/16" steel and some 1/4 plates to hold the rams. Now, are you needing to penetrate 1/4"?? NO, if you are welding 3/16" to 1/4", you set taht sucker for 1/4" you are gonna burn right through the 3/16". When welding thck metal like that, you are better off grindin the edge of it to a V pattern and doing a couple passes to make sure you get 100% penetration. Again, you still dont need to weld 1/4" steel. The 110v v 230v is a huge debate and I havent yet found anyone that showd me something you couldnt do on a 110v machine. Duty cycle... this is the amount of welding time vs down time for the machine to cool. High duty cycles are nice cause you can keep welding and welding but you dont really need to. When welding 1/4 panels, you want a series of tacks spaced out a couple inches apart and you want to weld very slowly. Jump around and not heat up one section too much or you will warp the metal. The only time you would need a high duty cycle is if you are impatient and welding something to the frame rail or floorpans. Just about everythign else you need to take your time on anyways

Brands - I would stick to a quality brand such as Miller, Lincoln and Hobart (made by miller). I have 2 friends that are professional welders and they will only use Miller equipment. They refuse anything else. That has to count for something. Everywhere you look on big city trucks and big utility trucks you see miller welders bolted to the truck. I really think Miller is the best welder out there you can find.

Gas vs Flux - Gas all the way. Welds come out much smoother and less spatter with gas. You want a good 10-15cfm flow while welding and dont be afraid to crank it up if you are outside on a windy day. You will want a argon/co2 mix. Just go to any welding supply shop they should get you what you need. The welding tank is expensive and you will pay for it up front. Sometimes they call it renting but its a lie. You buy the bottle and swap them out everytime you fill up. You cover the cost of the bottle upfront and if you decide to sell, they will usually buy it back.

MIG vs TIG - this is a really hard debate. Cost wise, a mig can do anything you will need it to within reason. TIG welding is more expensive (welder and materials) BUT you ahve much more capability and control over a MIG. With a tig you can weld metals like Stainless steel, titanium, aluminium (if you have AC but you can with a DC machine with tons of Helium gas) and other metals. I wish I would have just saved the extra few hundred bucks and bought a TIG. A nice Miller Econotig is $1300 where a syncrowave is $1800 and the DX $2000+. Im currently saving for the DX.
 
#31
Disagreeing information?!? You seem to confirm everything we've said. I agree there is nothing on a Mustang that you'll need a 220v welder for, but are you just buying it for the Mustang?

IMO, a single pass with a heavier duty welder is better than multiple passes with a lighter duty one. If nothing else, there's far less prep time, and if your doing it for $$$, time is $$$.

Another thing, you can't always get to the back side of 1/4" metal, example? Tube steel.

I want to build a car trailer as no one makes the trailer like I want it built. Am I going to use my Miller for the main frame? No, I'm going to use my arc welder. I'll use the MIG for smaller pieces and brackets and such, but the main frame will be arc welded. I'll be hauling a $30k+ race car on it and I want to be sure it's done right. But I also tend to over engineer everything, LOL!!! :jester:

As far as MIG machines go, Miller seems to be the prefered brand in most professional shops I've been in. Arc welder, it's about split. For a TIG, my chassis shop buddy has both and has tried others (L-Tec, etc.) and will go to the Lincoln every time. Most of the aircraft shops have Lincoln TIGs as well. Now there's a tip. These shops weld aluminum a lot and they tend to buy new machines every year as the high freq. "wears out". It's not bad after a year, but it is noticable between a year old machine and a new machine. For home use or light shop use, it'll probably last the rest of your life. Welding steel is no problem as your mot using high freq. If you think about it, aircraft mechanics make big $$$ and having a plane worked on is even bigger $$$. I think this is why they can justify buying new machines every year. I understand you can buy the year old ones for $1000-$1200 and they're pretty well optioned, but they just change out boxes and usually keep the cart with the tank and pump on it. So if your near someplace that has a lot of aircraft industry, you might try starting out there looking for a used unit.

MIG vs. TIG, for roll bars/cages, if it's mild steel, it has to be MIG welded but if it's chrome moly, it has to be TIG welded as per NHRA last I knew. You can change gas and the liner and weld aluminum with a MIG. Most people just get a spool gun and another bottle and go that route for aluminum.
 
#32
1320stang said:
Disagreeing information?!? You seem to confirm everything we've said. I agree there is nothing on a Mustang that you'll need a 220v welder for, but are you just buying it for the Mustang?

IMO, a single pass with a heavier duty welder is better than multiple passes with a lighter duty one. If nothing else, there's far less prep time, and if your doing it for $$$, time is $$$.

Another thing, you can't always get to the back side of 1/4" metal, example? Tube steel.

I want to build a car trailer as no one makes the trailer like I want it built. Am I going to use my Miller for the main frame? No, I'm going to use my arc welder. I'll use the MIG for smaller pieces and brackets and such, but the main frame will be arc welded. I'll be hauling a $30k+ race car on it and I want to be sure it's done right. But I also tend to over engineer everything, LOL!!! :jester:

As far as MIG machines go, Miller seems to be the prefered brand in most professional shops I've been in. Arc welder, it's about split. For a TIG, my chassis shop buddy has both and has tried others (L-Tec, etc.) and will go to the Lincoln every time. Most of the aircraft shops have Lincoln TIGs as well. Now there's a tip. These shops weld aluminum a lot and they tend to buy new machines every year as the high freq. "wears out". It's not bad after a year, but it is noticable between a year old machine and a new machine. For home use or light shop use, it'll probably last the rest of your life. Welding steel is no problem as your mot using high freq. If you think about it, aircraft mechanics make big $$$ and having a plane worked on is even bigger $$$. I think this is why they can justify buying new machines every year. I understand you can buy the year old ones for $1000-$1200 and they're pretty well optioned, but they just change out boxes and usually keep the cart with the tank and pump on it. So if your near someplace that has a lot of aircraft industry, you might try starting out there looking for a used unit.

MIG vs. TIG, for roll bars/cages, if it's mild steel, it has to be MIG welded but if it's chrome moly, it has to be TIG welded as per NHRA last I knew. You can change gas and the liner and weld aluminum with a MIG. Most people just get a spool gun and another bottle and go that route for aluminum.
Click to expand...

seems a lot of people disagree on the 110v or 230v issue. Some say it can or cant do this or that. MIG welding aluminium is difficult and you need a different spool gun. THe alum wire is so loose it like trying to shove wet spaghetti through a metal tube. The sprial wrapped MIG guns and lines just have a hard time with it. I wouldnt even bother personally.

I agree with the used welders...I ahve checked ebay and craigslist locally but yet to find anything.
 
#33
I agree with 1320stang I don’t think anyone is saying you have to have a 230V and nothing else will do. But what I am saying is that the 230v will give you more flexibility to do more thing and that the 230V I have has a much wider operating range allowing me to weld smaller materials with better control and thicker materials with fewer passes. The one thing I do know is I have a friend that has a 100 amp unit that when he was getting his sub-frames welded on by a true professional welder had a hard time getting them hot enough to do a good job and they eventually cracked.
As far as the Miller Hobart thing when I called Miller they told me that the miller brand is there industrial brand and the Hobart is commercial Millers typically have heaver chassis and better controls for day in a out use but the transformer, electronic and gun (on the 230V up) models are the same. And they are priced accordingly.
 
#34
Yeah, I think we're just saying, if you can afford a 230v unit, get it, if not, get a quality 135amp minimum 110v unit, don't skimp and get a cheap one. But if that's all you can afford.....

Look at you, you bought a 230v 175a unit, why didn't you get a 110v unit. You want to trade even up for my Miller 130 110v unit? I've got 4 heat ranges and infinite wire speed. IIRC, on a 230v unit you have infinite heat range as well, am I correct?
 
#35
1320stang said:
Yeah, I think we're just saying, if you can afford a 230v unit, get it, if not, get a quality 135amp minimum 110v unit, don't skimp and get a cheap one. But if that's all you can afford.....

Look at you, you bought a 230v 175a unit, why didn't you get a 110v unit. You want to trade even up for my Miller 130 110v unit? I've got 4 heat ranges and infinite wire speed. IIRC, on a 230v unit you have infinite heat range as well, am I correct?
Click to expand...

lol...no thanks on the trade :D I got a 230V because it was recommended to me by a few people here and one of my buddies. Not knowing anythign about welders I took the advice of people and spent $300 more than I really needed to. Do I regret it??? No, but at the time the $300 could have been spent elsewhere. My buddy just to a little Lincoln 110v 130amp from Home depot in an opened box. Got everything he needed for $325 and he can weld anything he will ever need to on a car. I paid $700 for my welder to do the exact same work he is doing. The downside to the 230v is first off, im really limited to where I can weld. If I wanted to let a friend borrow it, I cant because most of them dont have 230v outlets unless they want to rewire their dryer in their house. I have a 25ft extension cord, 10 ft cord on the welder and 10 ft leads but its almost impossible to reach anything on the other side of the garage. If I had a 110v I could plug it in anywhere. The other downside to a 230v is if you dont put it in yourself, depending on where the breaker box is, you may spend $150+ getting an electrician to run all the wiring. Hell, I spent about $80 doing it myself on materials.

230v is nice if you are equipped and have a designated area to weld. 110v is more versitle and easier to move and can still do anything you need on a car.
 
#36
Ahh, but there is an advantage to not being able to let someone borrow it, LOL!!! It seems like when I need it most, it's at my buddies house.

When I wire my garage for 230v, I'll put in 2 outlets. One will be right next to the panel as it's on my side of the garage. I'll put in a second one near the garage door so I can weld out on the drive if I want. I have about a 30' or 40' extension cord, but it was basically free, all I had to do was buy the plug and outlet and box. While I'm at it, I'm going to wire for the two stage compressor I'm wanting to get, it has a 80 gallon upright tank and I'll mount it outside the side entrance to the garage. I'll build a little lean-to outhouse looking like structure to protect it from the weather. It'll be completely enclosed and insulated, but I won't have to deal with the noise inside. My 110v welder sits on a cart, so I still have to deal with moving it around and I never plug it into an extension cord, I always plug it directly into the outlet.
 
#37
1320stang said:
Yeah, I think we're just saying, if you can afford a 230v unit, get it, if not, get a quality 135amp minimum 110v unit, don't skimp and get a cheap one. But if that's all you can afford.....

Look at you, you bought a 230v 175a unit, why didn't you get a 110v unit. You want to trade even up for my Miller 130 110v unit? I've got 4 heat ranges and infinite wire speed. IIRC, on a 230v unit you have infinite heat range as well, am I correct?
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What I'm saying is that the extra capabilities of a 230v unit are a waste of money for most hobbyists. Even though I have the money to buy a 230V unit, I would prefer to spend my money on other tools, or possibly a car. :)

I do completely agree with the "get a good one" philosophy. Cheap tools are not worth buying IMO.

I think you've done a really good job of explaining that you use the welder a lot and also split it with another guy (effectively doubling its use). It makes sense to me that you should have a better unit than most people. My main purpose here is to make sure that someone isn't prevented from working on their project because they believe they need a $2,000 welder.
 
#38
xoxbxfx said:
lol...no thanks on the trade :D I got a 230V because it was recommended to me by a few people here and one of my buddies. Not knowing anythign about welders I took the advice of people and spent $300 more than I really needed to. Do I regret it??? No, but at the time the $300 could have been spent elsewhere. My buddy just to a little Lincoln 110v 130amp from Home depot in an opened box. Got everything he needed for $325 and he can weld anything he will ever need to on a car. I paid $700 for my welder to do the exact same work he is doing. The downside to the 230v is first off, im really limited to where I can weld. If I wanted to let a friend borrow it, I cant because most of them dont have 230v outlets unless they want to rewire their dryer in their house. I have a 25ft extension cord, 10 ft cord on the welder and 10 ft leads but its almost impossible to reach anything on the other side of the garage. If I had a 110v I could plug it in anywhere. The other downside to a 230v is if you dont put it in yourself, depending on where the breaker box is, you may spend $150+ getting an electrician to run all the wiring. Hell, I spent about $80 doing it myself on materials.

230v is nice if you are equipped and have a designated area to weld. 110v is more versitle and easier to move and can still do anything you need on a car.
Click to expand...
I agree on the versatility and I did mention that in my post. And I have to admit that if I had not found such a great deal (Hobart 180 230V, auto darkening helmet, 25cf cylinder, cart, wire, hammer, gloves, contact tips, and other stuff) more than $1000 worth of material that was original $675 in kit form for close to $500 with tax, I would not have been able to afford it. But I saved enough money that I was able to make a 30Ft extension cord and I made it an adapter as well so now I can plug it into the range plug in with out a problem.
 
#39
1320stang said:
Ahh, but there is an advantage to not being able to let someone borrow it, LOL!!! It seems like when I need it most, it's at my buddies house.

When I wire my garage for 230v, I'll put in 2 outlets. One will be right next to the panel as it's on my side of the garage. I'll put in a second one near the garage door so I can weld out on the drive if I want. I have about a 30' or 40' extension cord, but it was basically free, all I had to do was buy the plug and outlet and box. While I'm at it, I'm going to wire for the two stage compressor I'm wanting to get, it has a 80 gallon upright tank and I'll mount it outside the side entrance to the garage. I'll build a little lean-to outhouse looking like structure to protect it from the weather. It'll be completely enclosed and insulated, but I won't have to deal with the noise inside. My 110v welder sits on a cart, so I still have to deal with moving it around and I never plug it into an extension cord, I always plug it directly into the outlet.
Click to expand...

The only hard part about putting in outlets across the way is runnin the wire. It was a PITA for me because there is little room in the attic where teh fuse box is. I put my on the adjacent wall about 5 feet from the box but I needed damn near 20ft of wire to do it. You are lucky you got free wire, a nice soft wire for an extension cord is almost $2 a foot.

It sucks because right now in our shop we only have 1 230v outlet and there is NO way to put in another one because there is an upstairs. We have to choose teh air compressor (2stage 230v 80gal), plasma cutter (which needs air to run) or the welder. It sucks
 
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