What would you do H/C/I or Vortech.

gcomfx.com · Jul 6, 2006

Wow, look at the curve difference indeed. Also look at the rpms. Just as some have said. The stock heads/intake kill the upper rpm power.

HGFireHazard · Jul 6, 2006

94-302-vert said:
That is a good point that acceleration is area under the curve. for this the H/C/I wins...

That graph for sure has a more flat and stable torque curve than mine, but at 2,500 RPMs I already make more torque, and you tell me with 20 more horsies that that combo wins? I think not. The stock heads and intake definately bottleneck the potential that a supercharger gives. If you ask me do the S/C first and get the extra few horsies and enjoy them, then do the H/C/I in the future. If you don't change your parts in the future you will end up at the same result whatever you start with, so why not start with the one that gives you more power?

sage2k · Jul 6, 2006

Its such a hard decision i say flip the coin to decide lol

BlackVert · Jul 6, 2006

i'd recommend the h/c/i if it is a daily driver.

JS94cobra · Jul 6, 2006

I'm kinda in the same predicament with my engine choices. I am building a 331 for my cobra and contemplating on whether I should go SC. I agree with what was said that a superchargers potential is not optimized on stock heads/intake. I would start with a solid shortblock, good flowing heads, good intake, and a cam choice that supports your H/C/I combo now and a supercharger in case your brother decides to get one in the future. Good luck with the project.

final5-0 · Jul 6, 2006

HGFireHazard said:
That graph for sure has a more flat and stable torque curve than mine, but at 2,500 RPMs I already make more torque, and you tell me with 20 more horsies that that combo wins? I think not. The stock heads and intake definately bottleneck the potential that a supercharger gives. If you ask me do the S/C first and get the extra few horsies and enjoy them, then do the H/C/I in the future. If you don't change your parts in the future you will end up at the same result whatever you start with, so why not start with the one that gives you more power?

I thought the exact same thing when I saw the comparison of the two pulls.

First of all ... You have to be careful when you compare pulls.

I just hate it when you see a pull where the hp & tq are scaled differently. It can make the curves look less than what they really are.

As you pointed out ... look at the value at 2500. 2750, and 3000 AND be sure you get your tq values from the RIGHT side of the chart. You'll quickly see the blower is producing more tq.

What needs to be done is put the two on an equal visual kinda thing by loading up each of them using the same hp/tq scale.

I ain't gonna do it as its a lotta work unless you got the numerical hp/tq values.

anyway .......

I don't feel there is an issue of your dyno results or my dyno results winning or loosing.

Both combos have their strong/weak points.

At this point in time, at least for me, if I did it again ......
I'd go blower first but it would be KB

It's all good and I'm sure you're having lots of fun

Grady

BlackVert · Jul 6, 2006

final5-0 said:
At this point in time, at least for me, if I did it again ......
I'd go blower first but it would be KB

LOL ... having gone the KB route, I'm now thinking I'd go HCI first on my daily driver. Heh, wanna trade cars?

I guess the grass is still greener on the other side.

Then again, if i had a 4.6 (either 2v or 4v), I'd probably stick with the KB because that version of the KB is intercooled.

final5-0 · Jul 6, 2006

BlackVert said:
LOL ... having gone the KB route, I'm now thinking I'd go HCI first on my daily driver. Heh, wanna trade cars?

I guess the grass is still greener on the other side.

Then again, if i had a 4.6 (either 2v or 4v), I'd probably stick with the KB because that version of the KB is intercooled.

Love how you put that ... grass is greener thing Chris

YES ... if you will put a blower on em ...............

Mod motors can be quite acceptable as they then have no lack of low end torque

Grady

gcomfx.com · Jul 6, 2006

The KB route also gets rid of the excuse about the stock intake.

gcomfx.com · Jul 6, 2006

HGFireHazard said:
That graph for sure has a more flat and stable torque curve than mine, but at 2,500 RPMs I already make more torque, and you tell me with 20 more horsies that that combo wins? I think not. The stock heads and intake definately bottleneck the potential that a supercharger gives. If you ask me do the S/C first and get the extra few horsies and enjoy them, then do the H/C/I in the future. If you don't change your parts in the future you will end up at the same result whatever you start with, so why not start with the one that gives you more power?

For someone that already has an intake.... sure makes me drool to get that much more power down low, knowing I would be part way there to get the additional upper rpm range bonus.

BlackVert · Jul 6, 2006

gcomfx.com said:
The KB route also gets rid of the excuse about the stock intake.

heh, did i mention mine is for sale?

gcomfx.com · Jul 6, 2006

Nope.... and I can't hear you! I'm trying to do the right thing and buy a new DD before I add to the stang.

mootang · Jul 6, 2006

I have to ask! why don't you build him a turbo kit?

brands5.0 · Jul 6, 2006

go with a S/C. easy power lots of ways to go wrong with H/I/C

STANGateURlilSS · Jul 6, 2006

GreenMustangGt said:
thanks for the help so far guys....i guess everyone is fairly split on this one. I guess the gears arn't soo much of a consideration because he hates the 4:10's.....He is gonna take my 3:73's when i switch to 3:27's.......You guys make a good point though that i didn't think of.....the h/c/i will give some drivability problems requiring a custom tune, where as the vortech sorta comes as a "kit" and to my knowledge doesn't need to be tuned. Question....will stock head gaskets and bolts hold up to boost?.....mine actually did on my car till i went lean....

the vortech would be the way i would go.. if he just wants to bolt it on and go.. it comes as a kit.. with all the needed parts.. timing retard very much needed for the blower.. the fmu.. but if he wants to get the maximum performance out of the vortech he should get it custom tuned and run bigger injectors and mass air..

as for the trick flow kit.. the stock injectors will be on small side.. 24lbs with a adjustable fuel pressure regulator would be the way to go.. but even still driveablity is an issue

i would say the best way to go..

price both of them out.. with all the supporting parts, and then figure out the negatives and positives of both..

5spd GT · Jul 6, 2006

Both need tunes to get driveability issues less.

Blower adds 50lbs. H/C/I loses 50lbs. 100lb difference between combos.

Very similar numbers. Low 300's are acheivable with the supporting products. They both would provide a good race.

People do not race to 2,500 rpm and let off.

Doing a h/c/i setup rebuilds the top-end of your engine.

The S trim will clutter up the engine bay.

Get a tune with either one and you'll have fun...

final5-0 · Jul 6, 2006

I knew that set of curves looked familiar

Donavan ... Hows it goin

Why didn't you remind me we've worked together before

I finally remembered I already had his data

Soooo ... a quick cut & paste ... and ... Here it is

You can clearly see he has nothing to be unhappy about

Grady

HGFireHazard · Jul 6, 2006

Sorry Grady, I shoulda thrown that in there in the first place. I totally forgot that you already did all that work and made a graph for us, nice work remembering. I don't have anything to be unhappy about and neither does Grady, both cars push out great numbers. Whatever you choose will net you enough hp to put permagrin on your face for a while. With that said, everyone has pretty much covered the comparison between an H/C/I and a S/C, from here ya gotta take the knowledge and compare it with what you want and let us know what ya decide!

YEAHLOH95 · Jul 7, 2006

just a little tid bit i drove my car for a year with the sc and no tune and it ran fine, it was rich up top and ran 12.4's that way . the tune gained me 30 hp and some drivabilty but only because my car had both hci and blower.

5spd GT · Jul 7, 2006

Head studs and upgraded head gaskets would be a good idea to have when going blown...

So while your at it...

Get h/c/i

What would you do H/C/I or Vortech.

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