Engine Where To Go With This Motor

FoxMustangLvr · May 21, 2015

Clean89pony said:
Alright...order placed. I have new VCs, the ev6 24lb injectors, the spacer, the MAF, and I am going to buy new vacuum lines to replace all of the old ones and clean it all while I have it apart. Hope you guys dont think im a complete idiot. Lol 700 bucks later. Itll be here tuesday. Thanks for your help thus far

You're not an idiot. Did you order a new upgraded fuel pump?

89oem · May 21, 2015

Clean89pony said:
Alright...order placed. I have new VCs, the ev6 24lb injectors, the spacer, the MAF, and I am going to buy new vacuum lines to replace all of the old ones and clean it all while I have it apart. Hope you guys dont think im a complete idiot. Lol 700 bucks later. Itll be here tuesday. Thanks for your help thus far

Welcome to owning a Fox

Clean89pony · May 21, 2015

No i did not. P.O. didnt either. So, looks like thats another upcoming purchase. Recommendations?

FoxMustangLvr · May 21, 2015

Mustang 190 Lph Walbro Gss242 Fuel Pump (86-97)

The 190lph is in stock otherwise the 255lph would work to but is out of stock. Like a lot of other things, once your there you should go ahead and do other things too. While the tank is down (hopefully the tank is near empty or siphon it), inspect/replace filler neck grommet, fuel return line grommet, fuel tank sending unit, fuel filter.

Edit: Once you click the link go to the bottom of the page for the "how to" video for replacing the fuel pump. LateModel has a lot of awesome how to videos for out Fox, JMac is great.

Clean89pony · May 21, 2015

The 190 will be enough?

FoxMustangLvr · May 21, 2015

Clean89pony said:
The 190 will be enough?

See quoted post below. Read it closely to see why you need the upgraded injectors and fuel pump. Yes 190lph will do the trick.

jrichker said:
Fuel injector sizing & injector photos

Revised 11-Dec-2011 to add larger injector sizes to injector table

Injector HP ratings: divide flow rating by.5 and multiply the result by the number of injectors. This uses a 100% duty cycle. These ratings are for naturally aspirated engines at the flywheel.

Example:
19/.5 = 38, 38 x 8 = 304 HP
24/.5 = 48, 48 x 8 = 384 HP
30/.5 = 60, 60 x 8 = 480 HP
36/.5 = 72, 72 x 8 = 576 HP
42/.5 = 84, 84 x 8 = 672 HP

The preferred duty cycle is about 85% maximum, so for a safety factor multiply the final figure times .85.

19/.5 = 38, 38 x 8 = 304 HP x .85 = 258 HP
24/.5 = 48, 48 x 8 = 384 HP x .85 = 326 HP
30/.5 = 60, 60 x 8 = 480 HP x .85 = 408 HP
36/.5 = 72, 72 x 8 = 576 HP x .85 = 490 HP
42/.5 = 84, 84 x 8 = 672 HP x .85 = 571 HP

Remember that the above ratings are at 39 PSI. Increasing the pressure will effectively increase the flow rating. Example: a 19 lb injector will flow 24 lbs at 63 PSI, and a 24 lb injector will flow 30 lbs at 63 PSI.

See Automotive Performance Software / Interactive Calculators to get the calculators used in these examples.

Here's the duty cycle explanation. Duty cycle is how much of the time the intake is open the injectors are turned on. The 85% figure means that for 85% of the time the intake valve is open, the injectors are spraying. The idea is that you want some percentage of the duty cycle left over so that you have some room to grow the process.

If you are at 100% and you need more fuel, all you can do is turn up the fuel pressure. That means the whole fuel curve from idle to WOT is affected. Maybe you are already too rich at idle, and turning up the fuel pressure makes it worse. If you had some injector duty cycle left to play with, a custom tune could use that where it is needed. That would not over richen the whole range from idle to WOT.

If you did turn up the fuel pressure, you might be able to change the injector duty cycle to get the air/fuel mixture ratio you want since the injectors will have extra fuel delivery capability.

With larger than stock injectors or higher that stock fuel pressure, you will need an aftermarket MAF that matches the injector size. The MAF “lies” to the computer to get a fuel delivery schedule that meets the engine’s needs and isn’t too rich or too lean. The best strategy is an aftermarket MAF and a custom tune to insure the best air/fuel ratio over all the RPM range.

Don't forget to increase the fuel pump size when you increase injector size or significantly increase the fuel pressure

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Copied from the FORD RACING PERFORMANCE PARTS catalog:

PROPERLY SIZING FUEL SYSTEM COMPONENTS

Fuel Pumps
The following information is presented assuming the above information has been taken into consideration regarding BSFC, fuel pressure and specific gravity of the fuel being used. Most fuel pumps for electronic fuel injection are rated for flow at 12 volts @ 40 PSI. Most vehicle charging systems operate anywhere from 13.2v to 14.4v. The more voltage you feed a pump, the faster it spins which, obviously, will put out more fuel. Rating a fuel pump at 12 volts then, should offer a fairly conservative fuel flow rating allowing you to safely determine the pump’s ability to supply an adequate amount of fuel for a particular application.

As previously mentioned, engines actually require a certain WEIGHT of fuel, NOT a certain VOLUME of fuel per horsepower. This can offer a bit of confusion since most fuel pumps are rated by volume, and not by weight. To determine the proper fuel pump required, a few mathematical conversions will need to be performed using the following information. There are 3.785 liters in 1 US Gallon. 1 gallon of gasoline (.72 specific gravity @ 65° F) weighs 6.009 LBS.

To be certain that the fuel pump is not run to its very limit, which could potentially be dangerous to the engine, multiply the final output of the fuel pump by 0.9 to determine the capacity of the fuel pump at 90% output. This should offer plenty of ‘cushion’ as to the overall “horsepower capacity” of the fuel pump.

To determine the overall capacity of a fuel pump rated in liters, use the additional following conversions:
(Liters per Hour) / 3.785 = Gallons
Multiply by 6.009 = LBS/HR
Multiply by 0.9 = Capacity at 90%
Divide by BSFC = Horsepower Capacity
So for a 110 LPH fuel pump:
110 / 3.785 = 29.06 Gallons
29.06 x 6.009 = 174.62 LBS/HR
174.62 x 0.9 = 157 LBS/HR @ 90% Capacity
157 / 0.5 = 314 HP safe naturally aspirated “Horsepower Capacity”

Safe “Horsepower Capacity” @ 40 PSI with 12 Volts
60 Liter Pump = 95 LB/HR X .9 = 86 LB/HR, Safe for 170 naturally aspirated Horsepower
88 Liter Pump = 140 LB/HR X .9 = 126 LB/HR, Safe for 250 naturally aspirated Horsepower
110 Liter Pump = 175 LB/HR X .9 = 157 LB/HR, Safe for 315 naturally aspirated Horsepower
155 Liter Pump = 246 LB/HR X .9 = 221 LB/HR, Safe for 440 naturally aspirated Horsepower
190 Liter Pump = 302 LB/HR X .9 = 271 LB/HR, Safe for 540 naturally aspirated Horsepower
255 Liter Pump = 405 LB/HR X .9 = 364 LB/HR, Safe for 700 naturally aspirated Horsepower

Note: For forced induction engines, the above power levels will be reduced because as the pressure required by the pump increases, the flow decreases. In order to do proper fuel pump sizing, a fuel pump map is required, which shows flow rate versus delivery pressure.

That is, a 255 liter per hour pump at 40 PSI may only supply 200 liters per hour at 58 PSI (40 PSI plus 18 lbs of boost). Additionally, if you use a fuel line that is not large enough, this can result in decreased fuel volume due to the pressure drop across the fuel feed line: 255 LPH at the pump may only result in 225 LPH at the fuel rail.

My Comments:

A lot of people oversize the fuel pump by buying a 255LPH pump thinking that the fuel pump regulator will just pass the excess gas back to the tank. It does, but… Did you ever consider that circulating the fuel around as a 255 LPH pump does will cause the gas to pickup engine heat? What happens to hot gasoline? It boils off or pressurizes the fuel tank! With most of the 5.0 Mustangs having the carbon canister removed or disabled, the car stinks like gas, and the gas mileage drops since the hot fuel evaporates away into the air.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Clean89pony · May 22, 2015

Ok so that being said would it be better to go with the 255? Or is that too large? And, not expecting leaps and bounds but...with the motor "rated" at "340 hp" the larger injectors, MAF, and all be it not much but the 3/8" spacer...will I see ANY improvement? I would suspect once I get the bugs out Ill see more probably but I mean...overall? Just curious. Probably wont do a power adder to this engine. Ill probably slowly do a build on the side. And build for possibly a TT set up or supercharger. But would like to get what I can out of this and yet keep it reliable for a while

FoxMustangLvr · May 22, 2015

A 255 will work too, a little bit of overkill.

Edit: if you end up getting a supercharger you will need more than a 255, more like a 340 or so. TT setup is a completely different beast.

Clean89pony · May 22, 2015

Oh yeah. I mean for now with this set up. Ill have to step up everything when I do the complete build. Just meant with this set up plus a bit maybe. Is this thing going to see 300 to the wheels at least or is it out of the question? (as is I mean)

A5literMan · May 22, 2015

Clean89pony said:
Oh yeah. I mean for now with this set up. Ill have to step up everything when I do the complete build. Just meant with this set up plus a bit maybe. Is this thing going to see 300 to the wheels at least or is it out of the question? (as is I mean)

Probably not 300 but it will be close enough you wouldn't be able to tell the difference most of the FRPP crate 306's fall around 275-290 rwhp. All the parts you've ordered and current recommended pump are all good advise for the current motor. Once you get it running properly you will have a very streetable and fun motor.

Clean89pony · May 30, 2015

Ok guys putting allcthe parts on....is this normal? The piece of tape over a hole on the butterfly on a second hole?

FoxMustangLvr · May 30, 2015

What brand/size is that TB?

Clean89pony · May 30, 2015

Not sure on brand. 70mm. And there are 2 pcv valves! One in the correct location and another in the valve cover?! Could THAT have been causeing the issue?

Clean89pony · May 30, 2015

Guy i need some help. The front heater line is the only one i see for the egr! No other tap on those lines. Also, can anyone provide pictures of what lines go where for the vacuum? This is where i am. Thanks in advance!

FoxMustangLvr · May 30, 2015

The heater tube line with the bolt in it goes to the front of the EGR spacer, the back of the EGR spacer goes to the lower intake manifold. Should be a hook up for it between your last two injectors on your passenger side. I'll see if I can get some pictures of vacuum lines. Mine is pretty custom but will give you an idea.

Clean89pony · May 30, 2015

They have plugged it with some strange bolt. Probably going to have to not hook up those lines. Trying to get vacuum figured at least. The hole is behind the last injector on this one looks like can barely see it on the far left. Hard to get a pic

Clean89pony · May 30, 2015

Ok, so im going to post pics of the lines and locations and maybe you can help my retarded a$$ figure out where what has to go. I still have no clue why they had two pcv valves...

Clean89pony · May 30, 2015

Sorry for all the extra pics, phone screwed up

Clean89pony · May 31, 2015

Hey guys so should I remove that tape on the tb?

Clean89pony · May 31, 2015

Update: got it all together, started the car. Idle was a bit high but smooth. Check engine light is on. Took it for a drive, ran decent, doesnt pull hard like it did before, its like I lost power? However, then it began stutering and having issues accelerating. The surge came back only worse, now im back home and I have an injector leaking. Have to pull it all back apart for the injector leak. Other than that...any ideas?

Engine Where To Go With This Motor

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