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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

Engine Where To Go With This Motor

  • Thread starter Thread starter Clean89pony
  • Start date Start date May 17, 2015
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jrichker

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May 31, 2015
#81
  • May 31, 2015
  • #81
Clean89pony said:
Hey guys so should I remove that tape on the tb?
Click to expand...
Leave the tape in place. Just remember to check every so often - maybe when you change the oil or notice a change in idle.

As to the change in performance you have just noticed, dump the codes.

Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.

Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.





If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10




Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see Equus Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
 

Clean89pony

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May 17, 2015
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May 31, 2015
#82
  • May 31, 2015
  • #82
Running SUPER rich now. Sounds like a high pitched squeel right around the mid engine area. Like upper intake up top. But, checked the lines and they are all on fine. Not sure what to check next. Reading on how to dump codes right now. Doesnt surge until i give it gas or rev it, then the surge comes back and stays.
 

Clean89pony

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May 31, 2015
#83
  • May 31, 2015
  • #83
I have a eec4 reader. Pulled codes but it didnt clear them or the check engine light.
 

Clean89pony

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May 31, 2015
#84
  • May 31, 2015
  • #84
Got egr codes and not much else. However, egr is cleaned. Car is rolling black smoke and spitting and sputtering. Pulled vacuum line on the fuel pressure regulator and no fuel. Surging still and as i said VERY rich and loading up. Runs worse than it used to...
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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Mar 2, 2015
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May 31, 2015
#85
  • May 31, 2015
  • #85
OK...I looked at your pics...I have the exact same throttle body and no holes in the butterfly ( problem #1 ) Did you adjust the TPS sensor ? Do you have a tune for those injectors or are you running a pre-calibrated maf ?
 

Clean89pony

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May 31, 2015
#86
  • May 31, 2015
  • #86
90sickfox said:
OK...I looked at your pics...I have the exact same throttle body and no holes in the butterfly ( problem #1 ) Did you adjust the TPS sensor ? Do you have a tune for those injectors or are you running a pre-calibrated maf ?
Click to expand...
Its a pro m 75mm cal for 24lb injectors. Stock computer. Tps is ok. Surges still horribly and running super rich!
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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May 31, 2015
#87
  • May 31, 2015
  • #87
I've seen people drill holes in the butterflies to try to solve idle issues...not a good idea...it throws off what the computer expects to see from the TPS and the idle air control valve. If you have a fender mounted cold air intake you can try rotating the maf sensor. Also check the o2 sensor wires running in front of the rack and pinion....mine grounded out to the subframe once causing rich symptoms and surging idle.
 

Clean89pony

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May 17, 2015
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Jun 2, 2015
#88
  • Jun 2, 2015
  • #88
Ok guys....so..update...still running worse. As I dont have any diag tools or much super technical knowledge...had a friend of my dads tell me to do the carb cleaner thing and no changes. Then spray water on the header tubes to check temp...the 3rd cylinder from the front of the drivers side..didnt steam. So..any thoughts? I didnt pull the plug, unfortunately I am leaving town for work til friday night. Any thoughts. Please help! Lol
 

Clean89pony

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May 17, 2015
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Jun 6, 2015
#89
  • Jun 6, 2015
  • #89
Ok guys, need advice...number 7 and 8 cylinders arent firing. I would say thats what it is. A friend said to spray water on the header tube next to the head to ensure they are all firing. All the other six steam instantly..the rear 2 (7 and 8 i think) on thr drivers side the water just beads off and runs down. I swapped plugs around to see if it was them. Still no change. Whats the easiest ways to check this stuff since I have nothing but hand tools and thats about it?
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
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Jun 6, 2015
#90
  • Jun 6, 2015
  • #90
It may not be spark you are missing.
To make enough heat to burn off the water you need the cylinder to spark and fuel.
So if one of the two is missing there will be no heat.

Considering you messed with the injectors, one would think that would be more likely.

Do some youtube searches, there are some easy home tricks to check for spark.

I also believe there are the salt and pepper connectors behind the intake known for causing injectors issues. Can't help more because mine have been gone a long time now.
 

Clean89pony

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May 17, 2015
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Jun 6, 2015
#91
  • Jun 6, 2015
  • #91
I did replace the injectors with new ones, however the surge and running rich is the same as before. And this intake takes about an hour and a half or more plus my better half (because of her smaller hands) and I both do it do to 2 bolts. What should I do to clean the salt and pepper connectors?
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
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Jun 6, 2015
#92
  • Jun 6, 2015
  • #92
Not sure how to check and clean them, these guys will know. I never had that issue personally.

I know you used new injectors, but the thing with a possible lack of spark is that the distributor spins and triggers the spark, so if it works for one, it should work for all cylinders. That would leave the cap, rotor or wires as the ignition issue.

I believe you when you say those cylinders aren't firing, but until you test for spark, you won't know if it's fuel or spark that is the problem.

You could probably even use the harbor freight spark tool which is like $5
 

Clean89pony

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Jun 7, 2015
#93
  • Jun 7, 2015
  • #93
Ok so last night, discovered some exposed wires on the ect connector. Bought a new pigtail and spliced it in. I will say also, since I switched all of these parts, it does seem to idle just fine (other than cylinders 7 and 8 being dead or not firing) idles smooth until the engine begins to warm. Then the surge gets worse and worse until it stalls. Then continues to surge. Does this help maybe narrow anything down?
 

2000xp8

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#94
  • Jun 7, 2015
  • #94
Start with what you know is wrong. Figure out if spark or fuel is missing on those 2 cylinders, fix that and see how it is.
 

Clean89pony

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Jul 11, 2015
#95
  • Jul 11, 2015
  • #95
Update...distributor gear was cast...Cam gear..not so much
 

Clean89pony

Member
May 17, 2015
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Wichita Ks
Jul 20, 2015
#96
  • Jul 20, 2015
  • #96
Clean89pony said:
Update...distributor gear was cast...Cam gear..not so much
Click to expand...
Well...the car is BACK. End problem...bad computer. That was the issue the whole time. However...now its running, drives fine but throttle response seems sluggish. Tps or timing or both?
 
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