Why 3G?

paczowski123 · Dec 10, 2012

Thanks that's all I needed. I will probably just fab one up like some I have seen on the Internet with a fuse link. I don't see the need to spend 40.00 on a kit when most can be found locally. Is there a recommended fuse link rating you'd recommend?

HISSIN50 · Dec 10, 2012

You might have trouble trying to marry fusible links with a 4 AWG cable. The inline fuse and holder circumvents this issue.

If you have a JY nearby, you could get a cable from a 3G Mustang (which, if not modified, has circuit protection). In an SN95, the far end of the cable attaches at the side post of the underhood fusebox with a nice ring terminal.

paczowski123 · Dec 10, 2012

My only other question is should I be looking into other problems besides a weak alternator? I mean my car had a steep cam in it, I'm unsure of the model but its a comp can. I believe my idle is somewhere between 800-900 but it seems as though any electronics will cause my battery gauge to fall at idle at let's say a stop light. Fr instance my cooling fan when switched on with drop the gauge then it will go back up then if idles for a log time will slowly fall until I rev It then climb again. Today I had my wipers, and the blower motor for hvac on medium and when sitting at idle the gauge would fall and the blower motor would get slower until I revved it. But the alt puts out 14.5 at idle. Are these alternators really that weak to begin with because that would seem impractical. My battery shows 12.5 stagnant volts and I just charged it thinking that help. Do y'all think its really a weak alternator? The steep cam? Weak battery? It just seems the alt should Atleast be able to handle a few electronics.

Boydster · Dec 10, 2012

paczowski123 said:
Thanks that's all I needed. I will probably just fab one up like some I have seen on the Internet with a fuse link. I don't see the need to spend 40.00 on a kit when most can be found locally. Is there a recommended fuse link rating you'd recommend?

Do you already have the proper crimper to crimp onto 4ga cable? If you don't, and don't know someone that does, I guarantee it'll cost you more than $40. Dont use a hammer, punch , vise, etc. or you're just asking for it to fail.

$40 is cheap, man.

HISSIN50 · Dec 10, 2012

paczowski123 said:
My only other question is should I be looking into other problems besides a weak alternator? I mean my car had a steep cam in it, I'm unsure of the model but its a comp can. I believe my idle is somewhere between 800-900 but it seems as though any electronics will cause my battery gauge to fall at idle at let's say a stop light. Fr instance my cooling fan when switched on with drop the gauge then it will go back up then if idles for a log time will slowly fall until I rev It then climb again. Today I had my wipers, and the blower motor for hvac on medium and when sitting at idle the gauge would fall and the blower motor would get slower until I revved it. But the alt puts out 14.5 at idle. Are these alternators really that weak to begin with because that would seem impractical. My battery shows 12.5 stagnant volts and I just charged it thinking that help. Do y'all think its really a weak alternator? The steep cam? Weak battery? It just seems the alt should Atleast be able to handle a few electronics.

We're assuming you don't see 14.5V at idle when you're noting the blower motor slows and the 'battery gauge falls.' If so, the gauge is wrong, there's a voltage drop in the system, or another issue.

Regarding the output at idle: Are you talking about the stock 2G? If so, that's normal. It's easy to demand more than it can produce at idle.
If this occurs with a 3G, you can overdrive it if you desire. The critical speed for a 3G is about 15K RPM.

Your actual engine RPM should not be a big factor, considering the commanded idle is 652 engine RPM, and you're possibly 50% higher than that.

paczowski123 · Dec 10, 2012

Yes just the cooling fan takes it to 13.5 volts at idle. I just didn't see how a at could come factory with an alt that couldn't even power the accessories. Won't it kill my engine if the gauge falls too low since its not producing the proper power for spark etc.

HISSIN50 · Dec 12, 2012

The battery takes up the slack till the engine is back above idle and charging.
You'd like to see over 12.6 V at idle in any conditions. Overdriving the alt is sometimes required to achieve this.

Bryan83taco · Dec 12, 2012

Great thread. I'm going to add to it. I just finished my 3G upgrade and my volts guage reads low. After a while the low voltage light goes on. I've got 12V at the battery and 12V at the alternator when the car is running. Wiring is correct and firewall ground has been upgraded to a 4G wire. Any suggestions? Is something wrong or am I just freaking out for nothing. I know I shouldn't trust the stock guage but I'm affraid to drive anywhere for the day (trips to work) and then be stranded with a dead battery.

HISSIN50 · Dec 12, 2012

Bryan, you could do some voltage drop testing with a dmm.

If the idle is already on the high side, overdriving is an option (notice a theme?).

jrichker · Dec 12, 2012

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. Be sure to have the maximum load on a circuit when testing voltage drops across connections. As current across a defective or weak connection, increases so does the voltage drop. A circuit or connection may check out good with no load or minimal load, but show up bad under maximum load conditions. .

paczowski123 · Dec 20, 2012

One more question i habe before i start my 3G upgrade, which i finally went to the PAP yard yesterday and found my contour fans and a 3G from a taurus 3.0 which looks like it was recently replaced and has a new part # on it which i cross referenced and verified it is 130 amp but my main question lies in the wiring. I HATE exposed wiring it looks terrible to me, and right now im figuring out what to do to clean up that jumbled mess under the starter relay. I know in the 3G upgrade thread it states not to cut the orange and black wires and just tape them up. why is that? Would it not be ok to remove just the alternator feed wires, I know the other orange and black wires feed the EEC but to me it would really bug me to have wires connected to my starter relay taking up space when they arent even used. Can just the charging wires be removed or are they part of the EEC and computer feed as well and need to be maintained? I know that id need to maintain the yellow charge sense wire.

jrichker · Dec 20, 2012

Just follow the instuctions I posted and you will stay out of trouble. If you remove the stock charging wiring, you also remove the voltage sense wire. The result is no output from your shiny new 3G alternator.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/3g-alternator-install-a-how-to.646825/#post-6673702

Alternator wiring.

Starter solenoid wiring 86-91 model cars.

Connect the fused 4 gauge wire to the alternator and the battery side of the starter solenoid.

Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Model cars.

paczowski123 · Dec 23, 2012

I figured so im just one that hates all that messy wiring everywhere. Im still trying to figure out what to do to clean up that rats nest under the starter solenoid that really erks me. Anyone ever done anything so far as covering that outside of doing a full tuck? Maybe devised an aluminum cover, or plastic or what not?

HISSIN50 · Dec 23, 2012

You can

paczowski123 said:
I figured so im just one that hates all that messy wiring everywhere. Im still trying to figure out what to do to clean up that rats nest under the starter solenoid that really erks me. Anyone ever done anything so far as covering that outside of doing a full tuck? Maybe devised an aluminum cover, or plastic or what not?

You can remove those wires if you retain the sense wire, as Jrichker noted, or run your own.

For the clutter, you could retrofit an SN95 fusebox if you like. Otherwise, there are aftermarket covers/shields, as well as the OEM coil cover, which can help.

madspeed · Dec 23, 2012

i covered mine with the fender!!

paczowski123 · Dec 23, 2012

Hissin50, what do you mean omit the wires if I maintain the sense wire? Which wires are you taking about? The black and orange voltage wires? Knowing me I'd probably mess something up. What are these different setups I see where people change the 3 wire plug and just run the black/white regulator wire from the 3 wire plug over to the connector for the regulator on the 3g and don't necessarily splice it off the orange/black bundle but simply jump the wire over on the 3G and run the yellow wire from the 3 wire plug to the power output side of the alternator? Is that a way of omitting the black/orange wires? Or is this some sort of aftermarket plug.

Kind of like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=3g+...&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#miuv=3

madspeed · Dec 23, 2012

you could buy a one wire alternator with internal regulator and forget all that mess

gearheadboy · Dec 23, 2012

madspeed said:
you could buy a one wire alternator with internal regulator and forget all that mess

Exactly how my 5.8 Capri is. Big power wire to the starter from the alternator. No mess.

madspeed · Dec 23, 2012

me too

paczowski123 · Dec 23, 2012

I could, however I have my taurus 3G and will be pursuing that route at the moment but my main question was what are these people doing differently in the link I posted above vs. the diagram jrichter has where you reuse the original plug and simply splice the black/white wire off the main power feed bundle.

Why 3G?

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