Wide band O2 Sensor

[vristang]

Yes I did look through old threads, mostly found "how to hook up" stuff, and posts on how widebands are better. duh.

I need info on "how to select".

I want to leave control to the computer, and provide a better signal from the O2s. Can the widebands be plugged in to the stock computer, maybe a signal modifier would be needed? Tweecer RT may be in my future, so I don't care about ability to datalog. Unless some brands have compatability issues with the Tweecer.

What are the wide band options on the market. I have been looking through different online catalogs trying to figure out which brands do what. I just want to make sure I am aware of all of my options before I make a purchase.

Any other advice would be appreciated.

 

[Daggar]

Pretty much any wideband that has a 1 volt analog output can be wired in place of the stock 02 sensor. If you're looking to replace both sensors then you'll need a meter that's able to take input from and send an analog signal out for both sensors. The other option is to run the meter in the leanest bank and send the putput from that single sensor (meter) to both of the computer inputs. Regardless of how you decide to do it, you should be aware that improving the signal to the computer isn't going to make much difference to the computer. The EEC is still only going to look at the very narrow range of signals that hover around stoich. You also have the potential to cause the EEC to constantly produce error codes as well since you're providing the opportunity for the EEC to see signals outside of the range it was designed to read. The addition of the TwEECer will make a difference in how the EEC is able to react to "new" narrow band signal though.

 

[vristang]

I've read some of your posts on this subject, and I am glad you stopped by.

Since Murphys Law seems to apply more to me than most people I am going to stay away from just running on one bank. Plus, I am not too sure how much this would apply to a 408w with h/c/i.

If the Tweecer will provide the results I am looking for from the O2's then maybe I wait a tad longer and do both?

I still have alot of reading to do on the Tweecer and WB sensors.

Last call for any experiences, good or bad.
jason

 

[9 Deuce GT]

I would personally not do any tuning with the Tweecer unless I had a wideband. I am not sure about using the wideband in place of the O2's, (is that even what you are asking?) I read an article in Hot Rod where a company is making a wideband system that can read eight seperate outputs. But it would not be econmically efficient for the every day car. If I understand what you are asking, how can you hook a wideband up for two seperate sensors? Wouldn't you have to have two different contollers?

 

[9 Deuce GT]

I just reread your post. When using a wideband, there is no control left up to the user. The wideband only reads what the EEC is doing with your mods to control emmisions. With the Tweecer, you have complete control over every aspect of the EEC. In my opinion, one of the best tools for any EEC controlled Mustang owner. I would look at one of the cheaper widebands if a Tweecer is in the future. You would not have to be concerned with any special features. Look into the PLX widebands or the LM-1.

 

[vristang]

. If I understand what you are asking, how can you hook a wideband up for two seperate sensors? Wouldn't you have to have two different contollers?

Now that I am thinking over what I have seen in the ads and what you are saying... None of the widebands will plug into the stock computer (is that correct?). That would make sense actually. I thought however that I had read that a signal conditioner or a processor (fuzzy memeory) could be installed between the wide band and the computer. I take it this cannot be done. No biggee but it is info that one needs.
From what I am gathering the wideband will send signals to a readout that I will have to watch, and make adjustments according to the gauge readings. The actual readings seen by the computer (its input from the widebands) will look the same as stock sensors. Or is it that the computer would be unable to interpret the wideband signals, without adjustment from a Tweecer?

Look into the PLX widebands or the LM-1.

I'll check out the websites for these tomorrow. Now I am tired.

I appreciate all the help guys. Obviously I still have a little to learn on this subject.
jason

 

[Daggar]

Wow... I think you might be making this a hair more difficult then it really is. You can wire a wideband up, in place of a stock 02. It gets done ALLOT! This is how folks usually go about avoiding the additional hole in the exhaust. Fuzzy Memory a;lsfk;alsdkhf;sa and the zipplitle valdanian micro sychranizers have nothing to do with the hole thing.

The "potential" exists for the computer to not like the converted wideband signal coming from the meter. It's sometimes a hit or miss problem that varries car to car but is also more common in "el-cheapo" meters.

Going back to your first post and keeping in mind your future plans which are not set in stone yet, I would recommend the following:

Get a wideband. A good one. Install the meter and sensor in place of the stock sensor in the left bank. Wire the analog 1 volt output form the wide band directly back into the EEC (you can use the stock narrow band connections). If it works with no problems... great! It SHOULD work with no promlems. If it doesn't.... go to a muffler shop and have them weld in the supplied sensor bung. You now have 3 sensors in your exhaust system. Piece of pie!

I should also note that if you expect to data log your wide band with the TwEECer one day, that you will need to makes some minor mods and wire the wideband signal to the EEC in place of the EGR sensor feed. That may not sound like it makes sense but it works pretty well.

 

[vristang]

Wow... I think you might be making this a hair more difficult then it really is

Yeah I tend to do that.

I should also note that if you expect to data log your wide band with the TwEECer one day, that you will need to makes some minor mods and wire the wideband signal to the EEC in place of the EGR sensor feed. That may not sound like it makes sense but it works pretty well.

That's some good info!
I want to make sure I understand that right though. With the wideband being data logged by the Tweecer I would have the stock O2s the same as they are now, no changes? Then instead of having an EGR input to the computer, this would be the wideband input, which could be recorded? Sucks to have to lose the EGR, but I guess most people who put that much into computer control systems don't care about emissions?

I thought I would get railed for asking about this, but you guys have both been very helpful.

jason

 

[Daggar]

Yeah I tend to do that.



That's some good info!
I want to make sure I understand that right though. With the wideband being data logged by the Tweecer I would have the stock O2s the same as they are now, no changes? Then instead of having an EGR input to the computer, this would be the wideband input, which could be recorded? Sucks to have to lose the EGR, but I guess most people who put that much into computer control systems don't care about emissions?

I thought I would get railed for asking about this, but you guys have both been very helpful.

jason

What you said is all correct except for one small thing. You do not have to loose function of the EGR at all. The only thing that you loose is the position signal going back to the EEC. EGR still works.. computer just doesn't monitor it anymore.

 

[9 Deuce GT]

Whoa. I am relitively new to this too. So please explain this to me. How can you plug the wideband into the EEC and replace an existing o2 sensor? I thought the EEC needs both o2's to function proerly, unless with the Tweecer you shut the o2 function off?

I would personally just weld in the bung for the wide band sensor, and let the o2's do their job.

vristang:

Being new to this also, I would recommend that you read the "Ford fuel injection & electronic engine control" book, if you haven't already. It is filled with great info regarding the EEC system Ford used. I have learned a lot with this book.

On a side note, when I said to buy the cheapest wb sensor, I meant the cheapest quality sensor. I have learned over and over, that you get what you pay for.

 

[Daggar]

Whoa. I am relitively new to this too. So please explain this to me. How can you plug the wideband into the EEC and replace an existing o2 sensor? I thought the EEC needs both o2's to function proerly, unless with the Tweecer you shut the o2 function off?

.... because the 1 volt analog out port (on meters equipped with them), "mimics" a narrow band 02 sensor. So... the wide band sensor feeds the meter and shows you the AFR on it's display. Then it converts the wideband reading into a VERY accurate narrow band signal and feeds it to the EEC. The EEC doesn't know the damned difference, so long as the signal is within it's range of understanding. Most times, it works very well. The only time it might give you trouble is if you've got an ECU that throws a fit if the reading are too far from stoich. Narrow band sensors are not able to send signals that drift much beyond stoich and act more like "switches" than actual sensors.