Will Shorty Headers Make Enough Power with Cams?

TrueBlue03 · Apr 29, 2006

This summer im planning on VT Stage 1 cams and i want to get some headers on the car to go along with it. I heard longtubes are great BUT illegal and wont work also because im lowered nearly 2.5" in front

...so I talked to a buddy who just installed some bassani midlengths and he said not to go with shortys because they will hardly make any power?? ... but im worried if i get midlengths, they wont even pass smog if i put back on my stock H...

AND i dont want to have to buy another midpipe for midlength headers, so i was thinking i would go with shorty headers for convienence, BUT does anyone know much hp difference is there between midlengths and shortys?? i would not think shortys would be completely useless cuz they would still be freeing up exhaust flow over stock...would they be worth the money??

PS: keep in mind im gonna have a plenum, throttle body, and CAI before the cams and headers.

bdcardinal · Apr 29, 2006

you cant use a midlength header with a stock h, they are illegal here. you have no choice but to use shorties. you have to have all 4 cats unmodified in CA. also the cost involved in swapping out the headers every 2 years for smog would be cost limiting.

03ghoststang · Apr 29, 2006

bdcardinal said:
you cant use a midlength header with a stock h, they are illegal here. you have no choice but to use shorties. you have to have all 4 cats unmodified in CA. also the cost involved in swapping out the headers every 2 years for smog would be cost limiting.

i agree with bdcardinal on this 100% we are screwed as far as swapping into L/T headers but shorties are good not much of a power gain but who knows if you would gain a bit with cams

BooWFO · Apr 29, 2006

well seeing as how I do have shorties. Like I've said I picked up 20 rwhp with shorties and UD pullies. We all know UD pullies do not pick up that much. I also had 10ftlbs of torque or more across the board compared to the stock manifolds. Now are LT's better gains, and install basically the same YES. But if been able to use the stock h pipe and been able to access and remove items like starter, and tranny are an issue then shorties are worth it.
as a side note the stock manifolds are HEAVY compared to any header, just think of them as a weight saving's.
BTW as far as power is an issue, my car put down 468rwhp and 543 ftlbs all on stock heads and cams, so I don't think they are really holding it back powerwise.Just now kinda wondering would it would have done with LT's.

03ghoststang · Apr 29, 2006

BooWFO said:
well seeing as how I do have shorties. Like I've said I picked up 20 rwhp with shorties and UD pullies. We all know UD pullies do not pick up that much. I also had 10ftlbs of torque or more across the board compared to the stock manifolds. Now are LT's better gains, and install basically the same YES. But if been able to use the stock h pipe and been able to access and remove items like starter, and tranny are an issue then shorties are worth it.
as a side note the stock manifolds are HEAVY compared to any header, just think of them as a weight saving's.
BTW as far as power is an issue, my car put down 468rwhp and 543 ftlbs all on stock heads and cams, so I don't think they are really holding it back powerwise.Just now kinda wondering would it would have done with LT's.

hmmm interesting......... what brand are you using for the headers???

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 29, 2006

BooWFO said:
well seeing as how I do have shorties. Like I've said I picked up 20 rwhp with shorties and UD pullies.

Correction.....your car picked up 20rwhp/10lbs ft with the shorties and pulleys....only after you had every other mod in your sig bolted on. There's no way in hell that hearders (of any kind) and pulleys alone would give you that kind of power gain on a stock GT.

hognutz · Apr 29, 2006

shorties don't make alot of useable power. they make upper end power but can cost you in the lower part of the band.

for example the JBA shorties do okay on the dyno but there was someone over at the modular depot can't remeber exactly who that just did not pick up any ET with them. It may have been startkie. I am sure the posts are still there if you want to search. I almost went with them but decied to spend money in other places.

so if you are a dyno person they help but on the track itself they are a bit marginal IMO. the ford ones are worthless N/A IMO. mods like this are why you see decent hp numbers with so so ET's some times. they make good peak hp but not alot of average hp.

I mean basically shorties are as expensive as having gears done and they will not give you the same et advantage.

billfisher · Apr 29, 2006

they are better than nothing. too bad about emissions. can you CA guys pay a buddy to fudge emissions?

Maza4ever14 · Apr 30, 2006

wow another bay area guy! whassup!

well there is a guy on cafords.com in the for sale section selling jba shorties for 400. just to let you kno

90RanGer · Apr 30, 2006

I was going down this road before, from all the research ive done they are not worth it. The don't gain much N/A and the gains you do get are up top, and you lose power down low. I believe the only carb legal headers are the jba shorties, the only ones I think I would get are the tuned length bbk shorties, but they arent carb legal..

GT02MG · Apr 30, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Correction.....your car picked up 20rwhp/10lbs ft with the shorties and pulleys....only after you had every other mod in your sig bolted on. There's no way in hell that hearders (of any kind) and pulleys alone would give you that kind of power gain on a stock GT.

Exactly....time and time again on a stock GTs shorties dont make much power at all and the cost of them plus installation isnt even close to being a worthwhile mod.

TrueBlue03 · Apr 30, 2006

well my car wont exactly be completely stock... i was just hoping shorties could open up the flow a little with the future cams, plenum, TB, CAI and tune im ordering all together...but maybe their still not worth it??

thats a bummer...i wish i could get the midlengths, but its not worth the hassle of swapping them to pass smog and all that crad. damn i hate cali for this

hognutz · Apr 30, 2006

the only way I would see shorties being worth it N/A is if you did a hole top end swap and raised you rpm range of your enine up a bit. that is so expensive you may as well just boost the car though.

the stock intake and heads are not really going to alow you build usable power all the way to 6300 rpms or anything though.

TrueBlue03 · May 1, 2006

so ....everyones basically saying leave on the stock exhaust manifolds because the shorties are not worth the money...it just seems like the stockers would be a lot more restrictive than shorties but if they're really not gonna make any usable power then i guess i wont waste my money...

...hmmm im still determined to get the cams tho, so i guess i'll just try to figure out a way to get around smog somehow with midlength headers in the future.

Gearbanger 101 · May 1, 2006

TrueBlue03 said:
so ....everyones basically saying leave on the stock exhaust manifolds because the shorties are not worth the money...it just seems like the stockers would be a lot more restrictive than shorties but if they're really not gonna make any usable power then i guess i wont waste my money...

...hmmm im still determined to get the cams tho, so i guess i'll just try to figure out a way to get around smog somehow with midlength headers in the future.

A few of the guys over on TCCOA have been porting their stock manifolds with good results. I mean, I'm sure the power gain is minimal, but it certainly couldn't hurt.....and probably isn't that far off from the less than impressive power levels that a set of shorty headers provides?

03ghoststang · May 1, 2006

TrueBlue03 said:
so ....everyones basically saying leave on the stock exhaust manifolds because the shorties are not worth the money...it just seems like the stockers would be a lot more restrictive than shorties but if they're really not gonna make any usable power then i guess i wont waste my money...

...hmmm im still determined to get the cams tho, so i guess i'll just try to figure out a way to get around smog somehow with midlength headers in the future.

imho i would get them even though people tell me there not worth it cause its cali so at least it would be better than the stockers and if you plan on doing some heavier mods like cams i think that they will benefit from that

speedfreak98r · May 1, 2006

Anyone know if Long tubes are illeagal in the Houston area? I mean with a catted mid pipe?

DropTopPony · May 1, 2006

speedfreak98r said:
Anyone know if Long tubes are illeagal in the Houston area? I mean with a catted mid pipe?

I thought LT's were illegal everywhere that is smogged.

The only benefit from shorties besides the 3-4rwhp(more with more serious mods) is the weight savings. Those stock manifolds are like anchors.

03ghoststang · May 1, 2006

DropTopPony said:
I thought LT's were illegal everywhere that is smogged.

The only benefit from shorties besides the 3-4rwhp(more with more serious mods) is the weight savings. Those stock manifolds are like anchors.

yeah L/T's are illegal where ever there is smog testing

thats true and since i live in Cali i wouldnt mind getting the shorties......

speedfreak98r · May 1, 2006

DAMNIT! I'm fixin to do my PI head swap with the VT stage 2 cams, and some Kooks long tubes. Oh well. Damn tree-hugging, crystal-holding EPA hippies!!!!!

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