Would you rather the '06 Cobra have a S/C V8 or V10?

i4power · Dec 31, 2003

awalbert88 said:
Crash testing is required every time you put a different motor in a vehicle for production, because it changes the weight balance. Yes, the V10 may be lighter than the 03 Cobra motor, but it's longer, so the weight is distributed differently.

The V10 engine is only 4 inches longer, and weighs 90lbs less than a Cobras 4.6SC, so I don't see much of a problem, if any.

SVTdriver · Dec 31, 2003

How limited a budget were they on. Considering they cast the engine and heads. As well as other one off peices. You may not see a problem with the 4 inches. But maybe Ford engineers do. Everyone here is armchair engineering this car. Does anyone on this thread have any hard facts about crash testing requirements? Or how the extra 4 inches may effect that?

i4power · Dec 31, 2003

SVTdriver said:
How limited a budget were they on. Considering they cast the engine and heads. As well as other one off peices. You may not see a problem with the 4 inches. But maybe Ford engineers do. Everyone here is armchair engineering this car. Does anyone on this thread have any hard facts about crash testing requirements? Or how the extra 4 inches may effect that?

I don't have any facts about requirements, i'm just reading from a magazine. Check out the latest issue of 5.0 Mustangs and Super Fords, they have a four page feature on the thing.

351CJ · Dec 31, 2003

SVTdriver said:
How limited a budget were they on. Considering they cast the engine and heads. As well as other one off peices. You may not see a problem with the 4 inches. But maybe Ford engineers do. Everyone here is armchair engineering this car. Does anyone on this thread have any hard facts about crash testing requirements? Or how the extra 4 inches may effect that?

Go over to a Lincoln dealer and park you V8 Mustang next to a Lincoln LS V8.
Then pop the hoods on both. You'll notice that in your Mustang, you have enough extra room in front of the V8 engine to store all the provisions you need for a 6 month camping trip.

Then notice that on the Lincoln LS V8 you have about enough room in front its engine to squeeze in 3 sheets of 20lb paper. Don't try to slip in 4 sheets, because there isn't enough room. Finally, go on the NHSTA web site and see that the Lincoln LS has a 5 star front impact crash rating.

Empty space in front of the engine does not = a good crash rating. The V10 will fit with ease.

Ohio 1989GT · Dec 31, 2003

i4power said:
Seriously, people are blowing this out of proportion. The 5.8L V10 is basically a 4.6L V8 with two extra cylinders!!!! There is NO WAY a Mustang with a 430rwhp V10 will cost $50,000!!!! No, it will NOT weigh more!!!! From 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords: it weighs 90lbs less than the Cobra V8. FYI, the group that assembled this engine were on a LOW BUDGET. Also, the engine is quite reliable, as they've been driving around with it for over a year.

351CJ: The 5.8L V10 is an entirely different V10 than the 6.8L V10 from the trucks. They can't use the heads, so they basically took the Cobra R castings and glued on two more combustion chambers, valves, etc.

The sound is AWESOME. I can post the V10 file now, so you all can hear it. It sounds like nothing i've ever heard, and I can't stop playing it over and over again, just to hear it. I'll try to post the file on my site so you can hear it.

Actually the 6.8 V-10 is to the 5.4 V-8 as the 5.8 V-10 is to the 4.6 V-8.
And what's wrong with doing new castings? The 00' Cobra R had unique castings for just what 300 cars? The 96' Cobras had completely different castings than the GT's. I just don't see the problem ....

awalbert88 · Dec 31, 2003

Ohio 1989GT said:
Actually the 6.8 V-10 is to the 5.4 V-8 as the 5.8 V-10 is to the 4.6 V-8.
And what's wrong with doing new castings? The 00' Cobra R had unique castings for just what 300 cars? The 96' Cobras had completely different castings than the GT's. I just don't see the problem ....

The '00 Cobra R was also a very expensive car, so the extra cost was easily covered. The 4.6 V8 engines are used in several other vehicles as well. The 5.8 V10 wouldn't, at least not as far as anything we've heard. It's unlikely that the F-x50 trucks would get this motor, as the 6.8 has a good bit more torque and is better suited for truck use. I wouldn't be opposed to the 5.8 V10 getting used in a limited editon Mustang, but I'm just not terribly excited about the idea. Unless of course they build it with the 9" rear and built-up T56 like the test car had. MM&FF editor Evan Smith did a 7K launch with no problem on that thing. That'd be a nice setup. But a V10 rumble isn't nearly as nice as a V8 rumble. The firing pattern is different, so no matter how you work the exhaust, it'll never quite be the same.

SVTdriver · Dec 31, 2003

351CJ said:
Go over to a Lincoln dealer and park you V8 Mustang next to a Lincoln LS V8.
Then pop the hoods on both. You'll notice that in your Mustang, you have enough extra room in front of the V8 engine to store all the provisions you need for a 6 month camping trip.

Then notice that on the Lincoln LS V8 you have about enough room in front its engine to squeeze in 3 sheets of 20lb paper. Don't try to slip in 4 sheets, because there isn't enough room. Finally, go on the NHSTA web site and see that the Lincoln LS has a 5 star front impact crash rating.

Empty space in front of the engine does not = a good crash rating. The V10 will fit with ease.

umm have you ever seen how little room is in front of the cobra motor? I wuold have to be eating awfully light.

yellow5.0cobra · Dec 31, 2003

Why are you talking about current platforms?

THE NEW MUSTANG IS a DIFFERENT CHASSIS.

Toss all the measurements you have now about a v10 out the window. Who knows how much space is in the new Mustang, maybe even less than the LS?

The lincoln LS does NOT use a 4.6, they use a 3.X V8.

And I'd like to have the extra cushion to help save my engine from being cracked and ruined.

Ever look into the engine bay of a new Chrysler, preferably the 300M? They dont even have enough room to put a battery in the normal space... they have it under the headlight. NO THANK YOU.

351CJ · Dec 31, 2003

yellow5.0cobra said:
Why are you talking about current platforms?

THE NEW MUSTANG IS a DIFFERENT CHASSIS.

Toss all the measurements you have now about a v10 out the window. Who knows how much space is in the new Mustang, maybe even less than the LS?

The lincoln LS does NOT use a 4.6, they use a 3.X V8.

And I'd like to have the extra cushion to help save my engine from being cracked and ruined.

Ever look into the engine bay of a new Chrysler, preferably the 300M? They dont even have enough room to put a battery in the normal space... they have it under the headlight. NO THANK YOU.

The 3.9L AJV8 used in the LS is a VERY small V8 it is considerably smaller than the 4.6L SOHC let alone the DOHC. The 4.6L DOHC engine is 4" wider than the 3.9L.

If you read the M/T article on the 2005 Mustang you will see that one of the reasons why they kept the strut front suspension on the Mustang was to get more room in the engine bay. Also in the article they say that the floorpan from the LS was pretty much lifted and used in the 2005 Mustang. The LS has its battery in the trunk. Partly to improve F/R weight balance, but also because there is no room for it in the engine compartment.

'67lover · Jan 3, 2004

I talked with a guy I know at Roush, they are helping out on the Cobra. It is using the 5.4 S/C from the next Lightning. 500HP...mmmm....

351CJ · Jan 3, 2004

[QUOTE='67lover]I talked with a guy I know at Roush, they are helping out on the Cobra. It is using the 5.4 S/C from the next Lightning. 500HP...mmmm....[/QUOTE]

Makes sense, One of the rumors is that the new SVT Cobra will use a de-tuned version of the 5.4L SC engine from the Ford GT (Can't have as much HP as the GT). In an interview Colletti said something like this (regarding the Ford GT engine): "We didn't spend all that money developing that engine (5.4 SC) just to use it in 3,000 GT's"

Colletti also said that SVT was done with the 4.6L SC engine and it would be put on the standard parts shelf for Ford to use on other vehicles.

If the SVT Cobra is going to get around 500 HP that leaves a HUGE hole between it and the 300 HP GT. It would need to be filled with at least 1 if not 2 special edition Mustang models. A 400+ HP V10 Boss 351 and a 350+ HP Mach 1 (or GT-350) would seem to fill that hole pretty well.

SVTdriver · Jan 3, 2004

In the new car and driver. The side bar interview with Phil Martens (Ford's group vice pres for product creation) said expect a bigger, broader seperation between mustang gt's and svt cobras.

skywarp · Jan 3, 2004

SVTdriver said:
In the new car and driver. The side bar interview with Phil Martens (Ford's group vice pres for product creation) said expect a bigger, broader seperation between mustang gt's and svt cobras.

In that article does it say anything about climate control, navigation etc? The 06 Cobra would be a world beater if it had some type of Vette options, had over 500HP,and came in under a Stock Vette in price. It all sounds good but you have to convince people that the Cobra would be a better buy than the Vette. This is were Shelby might come in.

SVTdriver · Jan 3, 2004

Actually it states BMW M3 is the inspiration. And that no firm price ceiling has been set.

skywarp · Jan 3, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Actually it states BMW M3 is the inspiration. And that no firm price ceiling has been set.

Thats cool. Ford would probably try to use the paddle shifters as well. Hopefully they can virtually duplicate the M3 and sell it for a much better price.

SVTdriver · Jan 3, 2004

Yeah lets hope. But since the mentioned no price ceiling it kinda leaves it up to speculation. At least for about a year.

BigBlockStang · Jan 4, 2004

I would have to disagree with many of you on the price, performance and also sound of the V10 engine. First off the price to manufacture the V10 would be much cheaper than putting a supercharger/intercooler and such on a V8. The pistons, rods and valvetrain are already mass produced. The engine would be less than 4 inches longer but no wider (even the current mustang could easily fit it). Forget what you heard of long strokes, Cubes build torque. The easy way to have a motor the same size as a vette is to make it a V10. Remember Ford did build big block V8s at one time. It was a natural progression to build a V10 out of the modular engine. Its called a modular engine because it could be made into different configurations at a low cost buy sharing many engine components. The sound with an odd fire design would most remind you of a V8 with a radical cam in it. Nice lope at idle and a sweet song at speed. And did I mention the price would be only a little more than a 4.6 And just to point out. when you go to the insurance company and tell them you have a blown V8 mustang. There eyes already roll like the slot machines in Atlantic City. The only problem that they would have to address with the V10 is the lubing of the cam journals at the rear of the engine. Something Ford should already have fixed anyway. Also the V10 would also be lighter than a blown V8 or about the same weight as a 5.4 V8 only not as top heavy. Bring the mucle cars on. Its good to be alive!!!

SVTdriver · Jan 4, 2004

Please explain why it's would be cheaper. When nearly all the pieces in the boss 351 either special castings or one-offs?

BigBlockStang · Jan 4, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Please explain why it's would be cheaper. When nearly all the pieces in the boss 351 either special castings or one-offs?

The only thing that would be a special casting would be the block. The tooling for the block would be easy because it could be built using the V10 truck machining centers and such. Its basically a lower deck hight truck block The heads,cams etc will be made within a couple years for the V10 truck engine anyway. The pistons,rods complete valvetrain are already produced for the 4.6 it is really just a bunch of 4.6 parts with 2 extra rods and pistons etc. Really the complete engine could be built on manufacturing lines that already exhist. A blower and intercooler on the other hand adds thousands of dollers to the cost of the automobile. Don't believe me, check out the difference in price from the 2001 Cobra to the 2003 Cobra huge difference. Remember its similar from going from a 6 to an 8 but when you step up from a V6 mustang to a V8 your getting a hell of alot more than just a bigger engine. Suddenly you get bigger brakes, better suspension,dual exhaust, better rims and tires, better transmission, and the cars are usually option out better. These improvements are really the price difference and not really the motor. And don't forget the base six in years gone past was the the cheap pushrod V6. So the difference in price was a little more. Well I hope this explains it for you.

sondesign · Jan 4, 2004

V8 sounds rule, especially 5.0L

Floppy said:
Nothing sounds like a V8.

I AGREE! The Viper has a V10... what a dissapointing sound! I can remember in high scholl having my 83 GT 5.0L, and besting a Viper in sound quality V10 motors are like 7 fingers on a hand, they just dont make sense! The harmonic balance of a V8 or V12 a far superior, and let's face it, the 5.0L has to be the BEST SOUNDING Engine EVER!

I would rather supercharge a V8 and have the lighter front end, better sound, wieght balance, refinement, higher RPM operation, equal speed, and take my chances with the durability.

The only reason Ford did a V10 is becuase Dodge did in the truck market (hence the Triton V10 is a TRUCK MOTOR!!!) And the only reason Dodge did a V10 in the Viper is because they did not want to spend the dough$$ to develop a V8 like the Corvettes to make more power in a lighter package (no replacement for displacement argument) Displacement is OK, if you want a sloppy pig of a car.

Do you really want a truck motor in your sports car?

Would you rather the '06 Cobra have a S/C V8 or V10?