A properly sized twin turbo kit will have very very little lag.As far as no torque below 3000 rpm,it wouldnt make any less than it being natural aspirated.A guy i know has a 93 coupe thats twin turbo,totally stock except exhaust with a twin kit and runs 13.1 at 117 on street tires peddlin his ass off.The problem is, is that more often than not they makes no torque below 3,000RPM at which point it then hits like a sledge hammer! Just because they make the same (and even better in most cases) peek torque as a Positive Displacement blower, doesn’t mean they’re going to have as nice of a power band.
I love the idea of having a single/twin turbo set up for making ultimate horsepower, but I hate the short, abrupt and often violent power band that’s associated with them when they do come on. Yes you can soften them up some so they don't hit so hard, but not without making them lazy down low and bringing back that "lag" we all hate.
I'm not saying turbo cars can't be decent daily drivers, but positive displacement blown cars make better ones.
Now....if you were talking compound boost with dual power adders, then I'd be all over it, but that's gonna get pricey.
What supercharger to get?
- Thread starter MY 85 GT
- Start date
The thing is, he wants to make the torque below 3,000RPM on a heavy street car with an auto trans. And very little lag is still lag. It also doesn't change the fact that power hits hard and abruptly with a turbo car. I have no doubt that your friends car runs what it runs, but the fact remains a twin turbo making ultamite power still doesn't match the streetability of a good Positive Displacement set up. I don't car how you size it, or what configuration your using.
Yeah i will be using this car as a daily so im thinking the Kenne Bell will be perfect for me...Im sure i will be very happy with the results...plus i have room to make this even better down the road.....Like i said if i can run low 13's and maybe squeak a high 12 out of it after doing the KB ...shift kit..trans cooler...maybe some gears...some suspenison work and i think i'll be pretty happy....plus it will be different ive never seen a KB on a 5.0 around here....
..Like i said if i can run low 13's and maybe squeak a high 12 out of it after doing the KB ...shift kit..trans cooler...maybe some gears...some suspenison work and i think i'll be pretty happy....plus it will be different ive never seen a KB on a 5.0 around here....
Hi-Po
Member
I have been running a KB on my 92 LX hatch for 5 years now and I am quite pleased with it.
In my opinion positive displacement is the way to go for a street car - those who are mostly interested in racing are probably better off with a centrifugal like a Vortech/Novi or Procharger.
I bought the small one (1500 L) and I am running abut 6-7 psi on an otherwise stock engine (BBK CAI and full exhaust only other engine related mods).
Got it dyno'ed last year at 280 rwhp (300 fwhp) and I am doing low 13's in the quarter.
I bought it directly from KB and did the install myself, its fairly straightforward so it is doable in a weekend even for those with limited mechanical experience...
The best thing about it is the instant boost at any rpm - it really gives you that big-block feeling without the extra weight!
If I should have done anything different then it would have been to go with the big one right away instead of the small one - but I believe they have discontinued the small one anyway now.
In my opinion positive displacement is the way to go for a street car - those who are mostly interested in racing are probably better off with a centrifugal like a Vortech/Novi or Procharger.
I bought the small one (1500 L) and I am running abut 6-7 psi on an otherwise stock engine (BBK CAI and full exhaust only other engine related mods).
Got it dyno'ed last year at 280 rwhp (300 fwhp) and I am doing low 13's in the quarter.
I bought it directly from KB and did the install myself, its fairly straightforward so it is doable in a weekend even for those with limited mechanical experience...
The best thing about it is the instant boost at any rpm - it really gives you that big-block feeling without the extra weight!
If I should have done anything different then it would have been to go with the big one right away instead of the small one - but I believe they have discontinued the small one anyway now.
millhouse
Founding Member
The thing is, he wants to make the torque below 3,000RPM on a heavy street car with an auto trans. And very little lag is still lag. It also doesn't change the fact that power hits hard and abruptly with a turbo car. I have no doubt that your friends car runs what it runs, but the fact remains a twin turbo making ultamite power still doesn't match the streetability of a good Positive Displacement set up. I don't car how you size it, or what configuration your using.
IMHO, what you just mentioned would make an IDEAL candidate for a turbo setup. A heavy street car will load the turbo’s much more….making the onset of boost much quicker (lower in the rpm range). The use of an auto trans will do the same. Lag will be almost non-existant with that type of setup and properly sized turbos! Now, there is no argument that a pos. Displacement blower will produce more of an instantaneous feel….but again, the setup you mentioned above just seems to be begging for a decent single/twin turbo.
FYI, at 3000rpm my twin setup is producing nearly 425ft-lbs of torque! It does come on pretty quick…but having a manual tranny with a lightweight car it’s what’s expected.
Dont get me wrong a turbo is awesome way out of my price range and way out of my skills to install it..I live in an Apt i have not that much time to lay up a car and i dont have a good place to realy do it...lol in the street nah.....lol...I think i can install the KB myself on a weekend....Also im not trying to build a 10 second car i would like it to go in the 12's
foxmustangman
Member
I think we've kept on stating that turbos and centrifugals are great for getting down the track and producing lots of high-end horsepower, but he's looking to get the heavist fox body off of the line. Now here...watch these...Kenny B.
YouTube - Update: My 1993 Mustang Cobra w/ Kenne Bell 1.5L Blower
YouTube - 1993 mustang kenne bell 2.2
YouTube - 1991 Mustang lx 5.0 Kenne Bell blown,kenny brown susp.
I LOVE that sound! I'm planning on getting a KB for my 'vert.
YouTube - Update: My 1993 Mustang Cobra w/ Kenne Bell 1.5L Blower
YouTube - 1993 mustang kenne bell 2.2
YouTube - 1991 Mustang lx 5.0 Kenne Bell blown,kenny brown susp.
I LOVE that sound! I'm planning on getting a KB for my 'vert.
Nice i cant see that now i'll have to check them out later im at work and you tube is blocked...
...I think im 98% sure im going KB route...
millhouse
Founding Member
As far as turbo’s are concerned….the more weight the better! Again, the added weight helps the turbo’s spool quicker…reducing turbo lag even more! This is all a moot point however. If he doesn’t have the space to install the turbo kit….his options are quite limited.
25thmustang
Mustang Master
Sounds like your minds made up...
Let us know when you buy it, and what it makes for power/runs at the track!
Let us know when you buy it, and what it makes for power/runs at the track!
Well my mind is almost made up...lol Im pretty sure i will go this route ...It wont be til mid winter or spring i do this....I will post pictures ...times...anything i can ....I think...i will be taking it to the track before it closes to baseline the car to see what i really gained...I think thats also i good starting point to see what else i will need to get me close to my goal....
Thanks for the info...I was talking to the guy that does all my work...He owns a shop that only works on Mustangs...very good shop I stopped by to talk to him today about the Kenne Bell....He didnt seem to like it...Said they had poor fitment issues....Something to do with relocating the Air conditioner lines and something about pinging bad with the KB...How hard was it to install..??? What has to be done with the AC lines and what does he mean pinging issues...He said i was better off going with the Vortech Vs2 blower comes complete with everything and will work fine...some mild gears and a built AOD...shift kit lentech valve body ..and a torque convertor...I really like the KB i dont want problems with it tho and i want to retain my AC so can you give me some heads up on the install what you had to do...Thanks.....
Hi-Po
Member
Ok... well I dont know what he is talking about regarding poor fitment issues cause I had no problems at all with any fitments whatsoever.
I did the install myself, starting on a friday afternoon and finishin on sunday. I am a hobby mechanic at best, but I just sat down a couple of evenings before I started and went through the instructions very carefully, taking notes and so on and basically familiarizing myself with the whole process.
It may feel a bit daunting when you start, but just take it easy and I am sure you wont have any problems. Might be a good idea to have a buddy helping you, especially with lifting the supercharger into place - not good for your back doing that by yourself!
You need to grind off a bit of the bracket that holds the a/c pump, but thats easy and the instructions include the template you need.
Furthermore you need to change the fitting on one of the a/c lines as it needs to be slightly re-positioned. No big deal at all but you need to get the a/c discharged before you start. The required fitting is included in the kit.
You will also need the tool to disconnect the fuel line if you are going to run the kit with the included FMU.
If you plan on doing bigger injectors and larger fuel pump then you dont need to worry about this.
KB recommends a set of quite expensive Denso Irridium spark plugs; I had quite serious pinging issues when going into boost on low rpm's until I got these plugs installed but they helped tremendously.
I still remember the first test drive... such an insane feeling the first time I floored it in 2nd gear at around 2000 rpm and just felt the rear tires instantly spinning..!
Ok so he was right about Pinging issues...But that can be fixed..Do you remember the part # for the plugs? What did you gap them to? I know for a fact its hard to gap Iridium plugs thats what i was told to run on My SRT-8 with nitrous...and that car has 16 plugs they were close to $200 dollars for the set..Yes i would get the kit with the FMU...what did you set your timing at?.....Ive done nitrous installs before,,I instaled roots type blowers on small blocks...Right now Im helping my friend put on a 6-71 blower on his 55 chevy gasser so i guess you can i might be able to do it...I hope...can it be done in 1 day if i started early?.....Thanks for the info.....
Hi-Po
Member
I dont remember the part # for the plugs but you might find it in the FAQ section at the KB web page. They are expensive, but they will also last something like 50,000 miles I believe. I havent changed mine yet.
I didnt gap them. I am running stock timing (10 before TDC).
With all your mechanical experience I guess it would be possible to do the whole thing in one day, provided you have prepared yourself properly and made sure you have everything needed.
The kit is very complete though, so you only need to make sure you have the necessary tools, but apart from the fuel line tool they are all standard, ordinary hand tools.
millhouse
Founding Member
There is no need to run iridiums on a foxbody with a blower and mild boost levels. Some simple copper autolites or NGK's gapped at .030 will work just fine without all of the extra expense.
ryan218
In just 10 years, I'll be old enough to drive!!!!
I'd like to have a kenne Bell for my project in the future. I'd like to keep the stock longblock (save for a valve upgrade in my stock e7's) I want the stop light to stoplight power, and have some fun on the street. Not street racing, just something "fun" if that makes any sence
i know what you mean. blow the tires to hell and back
thats my goal.
The pinging is likely the result of a little preignition due to either a little too much timing on the bottom end, or not enough octane in the fuel. This can be cured by backing off a little timing in the bottom end.
Agreed.
A set in inexpensive copper AWSF 12C (2 heat ranges colder than stock) or TR6's is often all that's needed. They last half as long but they cost about 1/6 the price. Colder heat range plugs are manditory for a power adder car and would probably cure your detonation at low RPM under load. i know what you mean. blow the tires to hell and back
Let me put it this way. I've got a smaller (than the Kenne Bell), Eaton M90S on my 3,900lb+ Cougar and in my current state of tune my engine is putting out the numbers you see in my sig. And even with an automatic transmission, IRS rear end and all that heft I'm still able to break the rear tires loose at will up to about 70km/hr, maintain better than stock drivability and still knock down 25mpg. That's a grin that's hard to get rid of and that only comes with positive displacement power!
Yeah pinging i wasnt worried about really that can be fixed...I was worried about the fitment issues and the AC lines other then that...I will run a colder plug and run my timing down to say maybe 9-10 degress...and i'll throw in octane booster ever other fill-up and when i do go racing i'll up the timing back to stock or tweak it a little higher and run race fuel 50-50 mix.....Ive been there i used nitrous on alot of my cars never had a problem...I want something different for this car and i want that stump pulling torque down low that the KB will produce...
I almost just bought a 1992 supercoupe..the other day..i was highly impressed with that 3.8 and the m90 supercharger quick car for what it was.....
I almost just bought a 1992 supercoupe..the other day..i was highly impressed with that 3.8 and the m90 supercharger quick car for what it was.....
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