Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads Cams and Intake NA Dyno Results

[billfisher]

we have ebough modded 3v's in the club with unlimited funds who are barely above 345 rwhp. non ported heads.

we DO have one pure bolt on 06 with 327rwhp.

i expect full ported 3v can go past 380rwhp with c&l injtake, etc. keep in mind the stock 3v intake is optimized for 5500 or so.

 

[tank_567]

There maybe one that made that kind of power on a nice cold day w/ STD number and not SAE, the problem is too many people like to add an inch or two, or in TGJ post 80 more. Just kills me when people post this stuff. I dont think my buddy is going to get 90rwhp more on a already full bolt 3v from just heads and cams. Like I said in my first post, 2v is on its way up, its ok to be scared if you have a 3v or 4v.

 

[billfisher]

im not scared of 2v. BUT these heads will mean higher boosted 2v can make more

 

[CatmanJJ]

I guess Ford Racing will want to switch from 4v to 2v now then.

I'm not scared, I think I'll be ready, besides I think it's awesome the 2v is making some headway N/A these days, just wish it was back in '02 when I had my GT. And who really cares since Camaros and Challengers on on the street now?

 

[TGJ]

A buddy of mine on has a 2007 gt, with ever bolton,
Steeda under drives, kooks longtubes, x-pipe, blow though muffs, bbk tb and spacer, coil packs, cold air, tune, and the list goes on , he has everthing but heads and cams, ON a dyno jet w/ SAE only made 315rwhp. Also hes getting ready to install stage 3 cams and stage two ported heads, fully built bottom end and we thing he may make around 360-380rwhp.
User ID: Lightblade

Also dyno'd a mach1 with fr500 heads/cams tune and I think long tubes only made 360rwhp, If you want dyno sheets pics and maybe videos I can get them for you and where ever you are getting this info from i would love to see it. thank you.

Not that I give a damn about dyno numbers but my 2005 Mustang GT with these mods:

JLT CAI
FRPP CMCV Delete plates
FRPP X-Pipe
SLP LM Axleback exhaust
SCT X-Cal 2 tune by Doug @ Bamachips on 91 Octane fuel

I made 312 RWHP SAE Corrected on a Dyno-Jet in Inertia mode in early May 2009. The weather on the day the car made that was 68 degrees fahrenheit, 77% humidity, in Saskatoon SK( 1800 Ft above sea level ).

The car with just the SLP Axleback made 276 RWHP on a Mustang Dyno way back in 2006.

I suggest before you throw the BS flag you join some 3V boards and find out what they are making. BBR has built 3 S197 GT's with over 400 RWHP N/A. They all used the stock 4.6L shortblock on all of them, one built engine made 427 RWHP from BBR. On one of the 3V boards I belong to, they were thinking of offering a 400 RWHP N/A package for the S197 GT. BBR John did post a 406 RWHP N/A Dyno-Jet SAE corrected Dyno sheet and video.

406 RWHP - N/A 3V - Stock Shortblock - WWW.S197FORUM.COM

 

[TGJ]

Just to add what I posted earlier.

BBR is one of 3 vendors I know that has achieved 400+ RWHP N/A with a stock 3V shortblock using ported 3V heads.

BBR has built the most powerful 4.6L N/A 3V I know of, it is 284 CI 3V that has achieved 427 RWHP.

There is a couple of other engine building vendors that have built 4.6L 3V N/A engines that have achieved 415 RWHP.

315 RWHP with all of what Lightblade has doesn't seem right. The numbers are way low. My car with way less parts is right there with him powerwise. Comparing my car to others similar to it across North America, I am in the ballpark.

His 13.7 @ 104 MPH is pretty sad as well. My car went 13.39 @ 101 @ ~2500 ft DA. All I had at the time was:

SCT X-Cal 91 Octane tune from Triangle Speed Shop
MGW STS
SLP LM Axleback
MT ET Street 26/11.5/17 tires on 17x9 Bullitt rims.

Looking for a similar car to Lightblade's, I found one @ Modular Fords. That car is making 358 RWHP with less parts and is running mid - low 12's. That makes more sense.

Now that I have shown you one car making what you claimed is BS, you 2 clowns might get your head out of your ass and realize that the world doesn't revolve around you.

 

[tank_567]

ok, how about 50 + 05-09 mustang gt's that roll though the shop that make about the same numbers,tons of dyno sheets and videos. Also my buddy had his car dyno by two other shops and both tuners said his tune was spot on. his time at the track was his first time ever down there. I still call bs on alot of people's numbers We will see when Lightblade gets his car built, I do a full post on it.

 

[CatmanJJ]

Any way, is there any more info on the 2v stuff?

This 2v, 3v, 4v pissing match gets old fast especially because the data can be skewed so easily just to make one look better then the other, when it comes down to it, money is really the deciding factor, IMO.

 

[Mike97gt]

ok, how about 50 + 05-09 mustang gt's that roll though the shop that make about the same numbers,tons of dyno sheets and videos. Also my buddy had his car dyno by two other shops and both tuners said his tune was spot on. his time at the track was his first time ever down there. I still call bs on alot of people's numbers We will see when Lightblade gets his car built, I do a full post on it.

I have seen TGJ around the mustang forums for years and I have never had a problem with his tech posts. So i highly doubt he is making up the numbers.


I have seen many times where numbers can differ quite a bit even with the same mods.. You have to remember there is lots of factors that play into dyno numbers. and with the 05+ cars the difference between a thrown together who gives a crap tune and really good tune can make quite a difference..

So before you guys call BS on him I suggest you read the posts on the other forum.


PLUS I agree with TGJ on lightblades numbers for the mods he has.. LOW and the 13.7@104 is not good for those mods .. I would like to see the DA number on those runs and the corrections used in the dyno pulls

 

[CatmanJJ]

I agree for the most part and I don't doubt the potential of the 3v with the new technology, but unless some peoples definitions of bolt-ons differ a whole lot compared to mine (CAI, pullies, exhaust, tune, etc), then I have a hard time believing this...

You are not looking very hard. There is quite a few bolt on S197 GT's pushing 390 RWHP N/A with the stock short block and a few over 400 RWHP N/A with the stock short block and bolt-ons.(

That being said what "bolt-ons" are being used in order to achieve N/A 390 rwhp+ on a 3v 4.6? Does that include intake, head work and cams, if so that would make sense to me, but those were never tradionally considered bolt-ons at least in the 2v arena.

For reference

 

[Mike97gt]

I agree for the most part and I don't doubt the potential of the 3v with the new technology, but unless some peoples definitions of bolt-ons differ a whole lot compared to mine (CAI, pullies, exhaust, tune, etc), then I have a hard time believing this...



That being said what "bolt-ons" are being used in order to achieve N/A 390 rwhp+ on a 3v 4.6? Does that include intake, head work and cams, if so that would make sense to me, but those were never tradionally considered bolt-ons at least in the 2v arena.

I think he means cams, ported heads and longtubes.. everything thats not FI or nitrous

BTW i just looked at lightblades dyno sheet.. Just doing a quick scan of it while I am working I see the AFF ratio is 14 to 1 buit that was probably read after the cats.. so who knows the tune could be off..




Plus I want to see a full mod list on lightblades car compared to the cars TGJ is talking about.. I BET there is quite a few differences

First thing I saw is lightblades car is stock H/C the cars TGJ is talking about already have ported heads and cams and since the builders were going all out for N/A numbers I am sure they did not skimp on either.


I think we are talking apples and oranges here..

 

[CatmanJJ]

I think he means cams, ported heads and longtubes.. everything thats not FI or nitrous

Ok then I can believe it, I dunno if it's either because I Tom Glancy'd it orhe was implying something else that I didn't realize.

Continue the discussion please.

 

[tank_567]

Lightblade's mods

Steeda cmd delete plates
Steeda under drive pulleys
BBK Twin 62/65mm Throttle Body and bbk spacer
MotoBlue Solid core coil packs
Kook's longtube headers
kook's x-pipe / high flow cats
MotoSTEEL LOUD MOUTH Axle-Back
tunable induction coldair kit
SCT BAMS-CHIP custom tune

and theres probably ten other things i left off. Also his car is a vert and when he hit the track it was his very first time ever driving on a drag strip. He's also getting his engine rebuilt and ported heads and cams installed, (also i think hes getting the c&l intake) at the end of the summer. So we will see if he makes over 400rwhp.....

 

[CatmanJJ]

Lightblade's mods

Steeda cmd delete plates
Steeda under drive pulleys
BBK Twin 62/65mm Throttle Body and bbk spacer
MotoBlue Solid core coil packs
Kook's longtube headers
kook's x-pipe / high flow cats
MotoSTEEL LOUD MOUTH Axle-Back
tunable induction coldair kit
SCT BAMS-CHIP custom tune

and theres probably ten other things i left off. Also his car is a vert and when he hit the track it was his very first time ever driving on a drag strip. He's also getting his engine rebuilt and ported heads and cams installed, (also i think hes getting the c&l intake) at the end of the summer. So we will see if he makes over 400rwhp.....

I don't see why not, this is the shop that worked on my car, he should get this intake to go with it...

The latest from JPC Racing | Editorials Blog & Discussions at 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords Magazine

 

[tank_567]

Oh and heres a mach 1's dyno stage 2 compcams, fr500 heads, Longtubes, coldair and custom SCT tune. Also it has the before heads and cams pull.

 

[lightblade]

TGJ. Based on your base line and mods and my base line and mods. 312rwhp is just a different dyno different weather anomoly. On that particular day here at the dyno we go to you would probly have made around 295-300rwhp. My car dyno'd at 304rwhp and 6 months later no mods or changes made 315rwhp. Dynos differ take it to the track. Thats the only way to really tell how much power your mods are helping you with. Definetly paying attention to the trap speed. 400rwhp n/a on the 3v is possible but the best ive seen from an average stang modder was 390rwhp. The ones making 400 or better our heavy tweaked and modded cars worked on by shop and performance guys. Guys that can afford to go from cam to cam and head setup and bump up compression to 10-11:1 range, maxing out timing and fuel. And costs way to dang much too! Plain and simple the mod motor was deigned for boost!! Be it a 2/3/4 valve they are not made to be high revving high compression n/a cars. I could care less if some shop dropped 20 grand to get 400rwhp n/a on a stock stroke 3v. 10 grand for a power adder and some good supporting mods and your at 450-500rwhp. And have money left over to worry about other stuff (tires/suspension) and you will walk over the fully n/a gt's.

 

[Mike97gt]

TGJ. Based on your base line and mods and my base line and mods. 312rwhp is just a different dyno different weather anomoly. On that particular day here at the dyno we go to you would probly have made around 295-300rwhp. My car dyno'd at 304rwhp and 6 months later no mods or changes made 315rwhp. Dynos differ take it to the track. Thats the only way to really tell how much power your mods are helping you with. Definetly paying attention to the trap speed. 400rwhp n/a on the 3v is possible but the best ive seen from an average stang modder was 390rwhp. The ones making 400 or better our heavy tweaked and modded cars worked on by shop and performance guys. Guys that can afford to go from cam to cam and head setup and bump up compression to 10-11:1 range, maxing out timing and fuel. And costs way to dang much too! Plain and simple the mod motor was deigned for boost!! Be it a 2/3/4 valve they are not made to be high revving high compression n/a cars. I could care less if some shop dropped 20 grand to get 400rwhp n/a on a stock stroke 3v. 10 grand for a power adder and some good supporting mods and your at 450-500rwhp. And have money left over to worry about other stuff (tires/suspension) and you will walk over the fully n/a gt's.

Your right dynos do differ, and I think your right on about the average guy and a shop dedicated to try and make the most powerful N/A 3v


BTW the track can differ quite a bit too based on skill and track conditions. Thats why I hardly ever agree when BS is called.


To be honest I really don't know why the BS flagged was dropped here in the first place

Your car does not have the same mods these 390-400HP 3v's have.. so it's a apples and oranges argument.

 

[tank_567]

To be honest I really don't know why the BS flagged was dropped here in the first place

Your car does not have the same mods these 390-400HP 3v's have.. so it's a apples and oranges argument.

Dude you need to read the thread then, I posted that his car is making 315rwhp and I was stating that hes not going to make another 90+rwhp just from heads and cams, please read the thread before posting.....

 

[Stan Weiss]

First to go from 315 rwhp to 390-400 rwhp is an increase of 75 to 85 HP. Lets say the 315 HP is at 6000 RPM that is 275.73 torque. If with heads and cams I can move that 275.73 torque to 7500 RPM I now will make 393.75 HP.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Dude you need to read the thread then, I posted that his car is making 315rwhp and I was stating that hes not going to make another 90+rwhp just from heads and cams, please read the thread before posting.....

That's actually not an impossible task. I can think of many examples where head and cam swaps have added 80-100hp to a person’s final numbers. Especially when you consider all of the other supporting breathing mods are there to back it up.