Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

[a91what]

What about something like this??? come in all kinds of colors you would need to either cut the flange off and use a coupler of some kind or make an adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/i/132417516549?chn=ps

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

What about something like this??? come in all kinds of colors you would need to either cut the flange off and use a coupler of some kind or make an adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/i/132417516549?chn=ps

You get the cookie for looking.

It's only 1.7" at the base inside diameter. The Tb opening is 2" I.d.

There is no filter element. Not even a screen.
I'll ask the seller if the one I linked how big that i.d. actually is

 

[General karthief]

O'Brien Trucker, I think thats the name, they have a lot of repop stuff for old cars, I'll look later to make sure I have the name right.
Yup, thats it.

 

[xecute]

Hp and torque losses with that system would liely be 15% unform. Sufrace area too small, and its acts as a gate valve with a flow efficency of propably worse than that 15% loss figure. I'd say its simply NOT an option, but its something you've gotta work out yourself. Use the science to get the right result. The worst kind of losses exist with that kind of filter.



Box the suckers, and don't use any form or bell mouth are or zone filtration. Neva Eva Eva filter at that point. Filter down wind some how, and you'll gain bulk Hospepower, torque and you'll have a proper filtration system.


With a great brake booster, you've got proper brakes, how about proper filtration?



1. Fuel standoff is active from about 3/16" from the bell mouths. A flat plate close to the bell mouth, stub stack, or carb intake with a parblic riduis will make more powert than an un filtered intake.

2. Flitration is not about size, its about preventing items getting into the ring cylinder boundary, and crwating wear. People theororize about the caps in cotton based K and N filters, and damn the items to hades having no idea how air filtation works. Air filtration is about stopping fine PM2.5 and 10 and 60 size parts of dust getting into your engine. Its the fine stuff that kills, the coarse normally drops out due to Stokes Law.

3. The paraolic intake and flat plate rules compell people to use the Holden engineer Warwick Bryce method.

The panel air filter was the humble Datsun Maxima fuel injected item, Ryco # 340

Designed for the first Turbo Datsun Bluebird SSS of 1980 model year

https://www.streetmachine.com.au/fe...den-v8-part-two-blue-black-motor-1980-to-2000


I wouldn't add filtration like that, I'd use one flat piece of plate glass or perspex/Lexan 3/16" from the bellmouths, and then use a lare single filter like the 365 dollar ferrari or Lamborgini V12 filter as an anular base to allow air in around the carb. Bob Wallace from Lambroghini got that sucker nailed down in 1963's GT350 Lambo

If you can, the old AC Cobra or Shelby air cleaner would work. You can remote mount it over the center of the engine.

Or copy a little bit of Austin Rover Maestro 1300 A + engineering and put a proper air cleaner right over the top of a 90 degree bell mouth

The older Mini at least had the carb arount the other way

But I'm sure you get the remote mounted air clearner idea.


Bell mouth and Stub Stack filters are the worst devices known to man, they ruin the pre frontal flow of air to the air fuel mix, and that's where all the performance and mid range torque goes. Turbulent air flow is what it produces, like a dispator from water flowing over a dam.

Re-read any book form Vizard on ideal carb intakes, and he pans that kind of intake for the three reasons above. Or see http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/inlet-trumpet-design-and-inlet-length.html

Item 3, 6.-11 shapes, ABSOLUTELY UNFILTERD at that point is the best (only!) option.

Remote mount a single Lambo filter around the ITB's.


Good fortune. Don't buy into stuff that doesn't work. You can keep the artistry, but keep it under glass.

SOHC Ford Vizard book in Air Filtration section covers your filtration needs further.


Restricted air filtration is fine if it has enough surface area, and is placed far enough away from the ITB's.

The weave and filter matariel on the early 1963 to 1980 crb Fazz and Lambo's are quite the worst for air flow, but the filters area's are darn huge, and as air filters, they are the best grit traps for sub 63 micron dust you'll ever get. The performance loss is nothing more than a 1% with the filters on.


ITB's and onebig ass filter will do the job.


Make your own decision. Those Ram Pipe air flow losses don't include the loss due to the appalling gate valve like filter in those filtered stubs.

Just nasty. +

 

[General karthief]

Even I understood most of that, I remember the early gassers with stacks sticking through the hood, their height was tuned for wot and mechanical injection, I agree with the box filter housing is better idea but individual bell mouth stacks look so cool.
Did I say I understood most of that?
I lied
In the beginning, you say 'parblic ridius' do you mean parabolic radius? I can't find my Aussie pictionary

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Hmmmmm....So what you're saying Deano is that I went through all of this just to end up burying the things under a box?

That wasn't the intent.

Since you're a visual kind of guy, allow me to illustrate:

This is the desired effect:

Now I'll concede. I know I've gotta filter the air for the 99% of the time that I drive the car, and have some kind of air box sitting on top of these things the rest of the time. The last thing I wanted to have to do was hole saw 6 more holes through an aluminium plate, then get a round over bit and create a smooth radiused edge, but.........It's my curse....

I just love doing stuff over, and over, and over.........

What I'm looking for is the 1 percent solution for the rest of the time it sits in the parking lot at a cruise-in.

Now,..if I can combine functionality with bling,...and I can have this radius-ed plate that I can just remove a box top off of box and expose something like this:....(only w/o the slots...alot of good that'll do to put a filter on top of that when air is free to enter from the back side.

Only I'd have the radius like example 3 on your velocity stack-O-gram chart...Maybe even make a ring that sits immediately at the opening like example 11.

 

[xecute]

My suggestions are to Use


1. velocity tubes clamped to the BMW ITB's.


2. A big 365 dollar replacerment or K and N 4liter Lamborghini air cleaner, or a remote K & N air cleaner according to your budget


3. An air cleaner case for mounting it.


Then put


4. laminated glass or Perspex about 5/16" away form the velocity tubes.


Soeveryone can see your work.






Note:


Only a bad toolsmith blames his tools for dyslexia.


Sooo, its Its my Logitech wireless keyboard and its nano second pause

Like 0.935--------------->0.0935 inches

'parblic ridius' --------------->" parabolic radius"

Since No one re-reads all of Vizards A series and Pinto SOHC stuff. .



The Ray Borret / Warwrick Bryce/Tom Walkinshaw Letter Box is just a large cover over the velocity stacks on which one or two throttle bodies can be placed upstream.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEOjUxZgocY


397ci Holden V8 - KANARIS Engines - YouTube



Its now a 700 hp letter box with the top and sides defined by dyno time, to get them as close to the velocity stacks as you can and still have best power and torque.

The 1992 VN Commodre made 470 hp at 7000 rpm, only about 8 more than the best 1986 4-bbl Quadrajet 304, although the formula was very tightly regulated .

The only thing it missed out on was ITB's and a prespex top so you could see the lovely veocity stacks.

All the GT40's seam to enjoy covering up the 5.0 and 5.4 engines, rather than showing the velocity stacks off.

Put a perspex or glass lid over a bunch of velocity tubes in a box.

Fords aftermarket does it for the Fiesta

Ferrari used a formed persepx trumpet cover, closer to the idea.

Aftermarket Datsun 24 and 26 Ouncers make a Weber DCOE 45 and 2" velocity tube cover.....which shows none of the good stuff underneath.

Buell and Harley Davidson start out like a stub stack and a nice air cleaner

then.....put a non see through lid on it.

This is the basic idea

On a Lamborghini LP400S and Espada, the six Weber 45DCOE's had the normal air cleaner on them. There is space for a velocity tube within, and the air cleaners just operate as flame arresters, and insted of perespex, Lambo use a tine plate cover.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I'm such a hack.

I should live in some desolate part of the world where technology isn't available to me...

No CNC machines,....No Lathes, No Endmills...

I'm pretty sure that If I lived in Cuba where they haven't had any new cars since the 50's to work with, I'd be a god.

Because when you need a customized bellmouth'd piece of 2" tubing that will serve as velocity stacks for your (6) S54 throttle bodies, that just happens to be mounted on a cobbled together welded up steel plate, bolted to a head from Australia, that you have bolted onto your smog era Ford inline six..............

You don't need no stinkin' Computer Programmable CNC machine. You don't need a capable machinist standing for hours at a manually operated lathe turning down a block of aluminum billet.. Cause when you're a hack like I am..............

You only have to look no further than the boys from Walker.

Tell me that I can't make this work.

I can buy all 6 of these things for under 50 bucks from Summit. Better yet, I'll go ya one step better than this.....

I have friends at the local exhaust shop that can make these things so that I don't have to pay for 6 extra flange brackets that I wont need, and that will be able to expand the end that will have to attach to the throttle body to fit exactly. I could probably either have them do that, or I'll just leave the other end the same O.D. so that it'll flow directly into the opening of the TB.

Now I'll admit it....If I had access to a machine shop and unlimited funds to pay somebody to make this stuff for me, I'd be right there.... spending stupid money to have somebody else make shiny sht for me out of aluminum......

But alas...................................I am my Fathers' son.

Descendant From the guy so cheap, he made his own fishing lures out of balsa wood, that only fooled the stupidest of fish.........

The man who decided to make his own power tilt/trim to lift the massive outboard Mercruiser I-6 250 out of the water he had on the back of his boat. Using a window motor out of a Cadillac, A gear reduction unit from a cash register, and about 20 feet of cable and pullies that he had zig-zagging back and forth, that took up the entire back of the boat. And when it failed..( and it failed the very first time he tried to use it) Just about cut my head off from a snapped cable...

The guy that sifted kitty litter before there was clumping kitty litter,.....The man that gave me my first torque wrench that he purchased from JC Penney. Probably because it was cheaper than the Craftsman version...(That I still have, and use as my only one)

Comes the Monster......Equipped with velocity stacks made from flared 2" steel exhaust tubing.

 

[a91what]

Now that you have that out of the way... welding them into a thin steel box with a clear lid and piping that down into the fender will be a simple thing for you to do. You can have cool filtered air and the stacks can be seen.

If you really want to get retarded you can put led lights in the airbox. You will be just like all the cool kids.

 

[General karthief]

Gotta love it
How long did you lay in bed thinking about that one?

 

[droopie85gt]

I am so confused. "I am only looking at the pictures." I told myself. But no. The long strings of letters that seem to arrange themselves into words, which then become sentences, torment me. It makes me want to go put a blanket down next to the engine stand with my 351W on it. I might even drag my 455 shortblock over so I can be in familiar surroundings. But I read and reread the last few days proceedings and I think I am up to speed.

You sir, are a glutton for punishment. But I know the end result will be pretty damned amazing!

 

[xecute]

[thinks}He must be exhausted by now[slash unthinks]
.......................

 

[95BlueStallion]

[thinks}He must be exhausted by now[slash unthinks]
.......................

Holy sht, your shortest most everyday one of us Joe Schmoe posts Ive ever seen. Welcome!

 

[dr. Dan W.]

Hey, Mike! I like the new direction, especially the non-autocidal aspect of it. The intake should look like art when you get "done"

I can buy all 6 of these things for under 50 bucks from Summit. Better yet, I'll go ya one step better than this.....

I have friends at the local exhaust shop that can make these things so that I don't have to pay for 6 extra flange brackets that I wont need, and that will be able to expand the end that will have to attach to the throttle body to fit exactly. I could probably either have them do that, or I'll just leave the other end the same O.D. so that it'll flow directly into the opening of the TB.

Low cost and local!

The two most significant concepts from Xecute's post (to my way of thinking) are the rolled and tapered flare to the air horn (better air flow in each test case), and a clear panel to make the artistry that will be your intake arrangement all visible. I guess that an exhaust shop can accomplish the flare and roll if they are willing, and I know that you can make a beautiful filter box/picture frame to show it all off.

Don't doubt people are still reading.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Color me happy.............(What color DO you paint yourself when you're pleased with yourself anyway)

It took the better part of 8 hours. But...........

I have BMW throttle bodies attached to the side of the Monster motor.

THIS was the ultimate test of my patience.

The main throttle shaft was too short since I decided to match my port spacing, as opposed to keeping the BMW CtoC spacing, and adapting things elsewhere. So, starting at the back, I bolted the two rear TB's on, and slid the throttle shaft through the support bushings. I then had to cut the shaft, and make these little splicy-doos that I made out of seamless steel tubing. The O.D. of the main shaft was like .475...AKA 3/8"
Problem was most tubing was measured in OD, not ID. When you get a thin wall 1/2" (like .062) it was still too sloppy...fortunately for me I found some thicker wall stuff that was pretty close.

I split it up the middle nonetheless. I decided that cutting a line .060 out the the tubing would make it too small ID, and when using a bolt to tie stuff together,... would make it crimp that main shaft like a second skin.

You can bet that drilling those holes through the tubing, marking the shaft w/ a sharpie, and then drilling the holes through the shaft was a tedious job....and here is where you can see the hack in me....If this was a high dollar build, all of those bolts would line up perfectly...But what can I say,..........I eyeballed every one of them.

The front and rear TB's held the fuel rail on on the engine that the TB's came off of. Now that they're on the Monster's engine, they just get in the way..The bolt hits the throttle body, and that leg that you can see sticking off of the front TB...
It will get a session with a sawzall shortly.

Of other note, Now that you can see into the TB, you can see the port work that needs to be done to match the TB up to my plate..minimal grinding will blend the opening to fix that.

I'm gonna use the factory injector bosses built into the TB base...I've already made the little straps that'll hold my fuel rail in place,...easy peasy.

So,..then,....what's left before I can call this done?

A lot actualy.

I got to decide whether or not I want to get everything perfect, and weld the bolts that mount the TB's to the backside of the plate. Doing that will act as alignment dowels so that I can put the TB's back on after I clean them up, and not have to dick with getting them all aligned while gasket gook is setting up. If I do that, the flange has to be perfect..because I'll never be able to plane down any high or low areas with 12 bolts sticking up off of that deck.

But that's the plan..

Obviously, I've got some blending to do still, I have to tap the TB's for the fittings that I'll use to feed vacuum signal to a reservoir.

I've gotta build that thing too.

The TB's still have to be cleaned up after that, painted sparkly silver metallic, cleared, and then put back together.

The #6 TB is the one that'll have the TPS sensor on it. Unlike a Mustang unit, It's not calibrate-able...Hopefully, Tuner studio will let me set open/close percentages so I wont have some goofy sht going on from that.

I've got to figure out where, and how to locate a throttle bracket..and make one..

And even after all of that.....I still gotta figure out what to do about getting filtered air into the things.

Don't matter bout none of that though.....I've got 6 ITB's hanging on the side of the Monster motor.

 

[90sickfox]

That looks #amn cool, Mike.

I'm going to cast my vote for a plexi cover that sucks air from somewhere else. Those things are too pretty to cover up.

 

[95BlueStallion]

Agreed. Plexi box over them, plumbed to the fender where a plain jane conical filter does the filtering from inside a fender...

Congrats on the work so far. One of a kind, and cool as fck looking!

 

[RaggedGT]

Could you just throw some motorcycle style conical filters on the Tb’s for driving duty,then just take ‘em off when in car show mode?

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Could you just throw some motorcycle style conical filters on the Tb’s for driving duty,then just take ‘em off when in car show mode?

It's a thought...The whole plexi thing is more likely to not happen than otherwise. I'd rather cover the thing w/ a box that I can remove the lid off of, than to try and come up w/ some 70's looking clear box.

 

[a91what]

Nah metal box with a plexiglass lid.... would be a trivial thing for you to make a flush mount flange, then use screws or pan head bolts and some foam to attatch/seal the lid.