Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

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#8,161
CarMichael Angelo said:
All this to say that Dean doesn't like the Big assed Barra.
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Nah, its just a size thing. I think a pushrod twin turbo 250 with six ITB is the right path.That's not because I hate the Barra or 4.0.

The last 4.0 Falcon Twin cam had the toughest block, the best head, and the best 6 speed transmission money could buy. And an optional GT40 ball bearing turbo version just itching to shove more than its stock so called 350 to 416 hp to the drive line.


My favorite six is still the Ford Aussie 4.0. I just don't like loosing engine capacity with a duplex or simplex chain draped over one or two high mounted cams.

Even though he developed the BMW 1500 ohc engine, I'm pretty sure Dr Fritz Fiedler ( b. 1899 d 1972) from BMW felt the same way.

No change since October 3rd 2007... :beer: Fords Falcon 4.0DOHC engine.

Regards power and price, there wasn't any better engine for the money in the world.

BMW engines could run to 1500 hp using a stock 318i 4 cylinder block and 16 valve head. A F1 BMW engine had 1500cc, a destroked 318i engine, and qualification form on the F1 grid they had to be the best power producer ever. The BMW M1 with a six cylinder version of the BMW F1 engine did an easy 850 hp in Procar racing, so it's certainly possible that a turbo 3.5 BMW M1 six could make 3000 hp if the components were up to 10 000 rpm.

But in context, just a little work on a stock 4.0 six with Chevy small block rods and forged pistions and Subaru piston rings with a really big turbo gave that 1500 hp DOHC Falcon six back in 2007. I think cylinder number one was resleaved, but that was it. 1500 hp at about 6500 rpm.


"The best straight six?"

Well, time to drink some more AB Ale!


xctasy said:
Fords Falcon 4.0DOHC engine. It's a Datsun at half the price engine. And the Nissan/Datsun L and R sereis engines were BMW at half the price engines.

It was nothing to get a stock Nissan 3.0 in liner and make 650 hp out of it with a turbo. A Nismo 2.6 GTR engine could go to over 1000 hp. Now, the Ford 4.0 eclipses that, with over 600 hp via a stock Turbo reworked, and 1500 hp possible.

No contest.

If Ford kill the 4.0 Dohc engine block, or fail to make a iron blocked Diesel derivative, I'll have to swap camps and work on Nissan engines.
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Back in #22 by xctasy » Wed Oct 03, 2007 and again in #114 by xctasy » Sat Apr 30, 2011

I said....If Ford kill the 4.0 Dohc engine block, or fail to make a iron blocked Diesel derivative, I'll have to swap camps and work on Nissan engines.


Done that.
I drive a Nissan Stagea Variable Valve timing DOHC 2.5 liter with 186 hp. Its a gaint POS over head cam engine that sounds like attacking Africanised Honey Bee's.

I still "no like" overhead cam engines. When BMW, Frazer Nash and Bristol got rid of its 328 crossover pushrod in line six in the early 50's, and when BMW then axed the 3.2 liter V8 based 502/503/507 engine in September 1965, over cam 4's and 6's were a IMHO backward step.

Great thing is any pushrod in line six even with twin turbos, most likely also sounds like Greg Browns Laughing River 220 IHI in line Six TravelAll....


I'm goin away
'cause I gotta busted heart
I'm leavin' today
If my TravelAll will start
 
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#8,162
I'll just say this about that.
While NVU. Gauges are affordable, very full featured, and very cool, the service tech guy is about worthless.

My tach was off about 1000 rpm, and the speedo, about 20-25 mph.

The tach lets you fine tune the engine pulses per revolution, but the guy had no idea what EDIS even was. He couldn't tell me which way to go number wise ( up or down) to make the tach jive with what my ECU was telling me. ( I had to go down to make the revs go up).

Now the tach is w/I 100 RPM of the ecu.

I told him that Everytime I got into the config menu, I'd lose that config menu as soon as I started the engine. ( I guess that between Koeo, and koer, there was a power interruption to the gauge that dude didn't even bother guessing at.) He referred me to their video. ( it says to hold the calibration button before turning the key, and continue holding it until you see the config menu)

What's his purpose in life when there's a video?

Now I'm not going 100 mph when I'm actually going 75.

I gotta tell you, it's kinda boring not having anything to do to the car except drive it.

To be sure, there are things I need to do..... The passenger side mirror won't stay set,....the visors need installing, the end caps on the dash put back,.....but,......meh....boring stuff.

The freaking squeak....I got no idea which pulley is doing it, and I got no freaking idea how to determine that w/o just throwing money at it.

I don't like that plan.

The engine revs freely to 5k rpm, but 6k just seems like a bunch of added noise. It's really a perfect little streeter based on the power band, but............
 
#8,165
CarMichael Angelo said:
I was talking about a 5.0 if that matters.
I'd imagine if my engine wasn't 100 cubic inches smaller than a 351, and 50 smaller than a 5.0, my statement about doubling the power w/o any aftermarket head (S), or intake would have little merit.

To you Scott.....@Hot Fox with respect, you're wrong. There have been more than a few " returning it back to stock" threads that pop up here regularly, and who knows how many just disappear off the board because they got tired of the compromises they had to make just to keep 500+ HP on the road. For me, the concern that I'll put a window in the side of that block wasn't worth the thrill of putting it into boost.
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How do those words of that your last sentance taste Mike?
 
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#8,170
The question for today stems directly from my ignorance......

Why wouldn't I want this?
1531072324060.webp

It's Chinee I know.....But there are several here that are using them, so I'd thought I'd pose the question out loud here.
It's a ceramic BB turbo,...says that it's water and oil cooled, but I cannot see from the pics where those lines plumb to.
The attraction is the price...it's not too cheap, and it's internally gated, which makes this conversion back to forced induction more reasonable.
The BMW turbos are actuated based on vacuum instead of boost, and it was just one more project too many that I didn't want to dick with. The only thing other than this thing I'd need to completely convert back is a new water meth kit. So for the price of my last turbo alone, I can convert it back.

I just don't know how an internally gated turbo is controlled.....( I don't know if this thing doesn't work off of vacuum either for that matter...)

It's a smaller flange, but that just seems like it'll spool faster to me..I don't know what the A/R ratio does/doesn't do for me here either..

I do know this.....the engine is done at 6k rpm. ( probably actually more like 5500). It's a street car with 3.73 gears. It didnt need hardly any throttle to put it in boost before, so I could actually afford to "lazy it up"

So, boost experts...what am I looking at here?
 
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#8,173
I'm not buying anything this minute, but I'm starting to look. ( which means I'll buy something w/i the next couple of days)
I've already learned that the turbine AR number is really the one that matters in choosing the thing. The larger the number, the lazier the turbo regarding where and when it makes boost. Conversely a smaller number makes boost quicker, but will create more exhaust back pressure limiting top end. When you read the " fine print" on the turbo I listed, it shows a .82 turbine a/r which will be very similar to my old one excepting that it won't be a twin scroll unit, and I'll be forcing all six cylinders to breathe through that tiny little hole.

The thing I choose has to be internally gated,...I'm not spending that much money on this thing this time around...I know it's probably a risk, being a JDM brand,..but the specs....( ball bearing,...inconel impeller, water cooled...) they just seem too good.

Too good to be true.
 
#8,176
First, the drive-by video Sounded Beautiful! It looked good, too.
Second, it seems like you are after top-end (you look to have plenty of low-rpm torque), so lazy and better breathing is my vote.
Third, I was relieved when you caught yourself before adding that access hole (via the rod the boost might have "freed-up"). Can you maintain your sanity and have a turbo? As it spools up, you kind of seem to, too.
Fourth, on your choice of turbos, don't buy another regret. Is a BMW unit better, or just more accessible for you, or more stylish? Whichever, you don't seem to be in a waiting mood....

And the gauges are so much better.

Thanks for sharing.
 
#8,177
I got absolutely nothing to do today, so I decided to wax the monster on the off chance that I'll get off next Saturday early enough to actually make it there at a reasonable time. That plan lasted about as long as it took to put it on, let it dry and wipe it back off. Over the winter it appears that I have had a little paint hazing or something, and the need for an actual cut an buff was just roaring too loudly at me to let that be.

So,...out came the 2000, 3000, the buffer, two pads, and three stages of compound.

And I wore my ass out working on the drivers side front fender.

I've taken a picture, but you can't see anything from it... ( it's just shiny)
image.webp


Now I'm not complaining...I love this paint job. Sure it has imperfections, and sure it's got a fair amount of debris in the paint,..but there's only one guy to blame for that.....me.

What do ya expect from a guy that didn't check his filter on the compressor, and didn't seal up the booth properly.

I lasted one fender before the towel came out, and I threw that into the center of the ring too...I decided I'd take it to a chassis dyno to get myself slapped upside the head with the pitiful reality of what this NA version of the monster is capable of to the tire.

There are 5 chassis Dynos in this city....three wouldn't answer the phone, and the other two were too busy to fit me in.

I have an appointment for next Monday....that guy is about 1.5 miles down the road from me. It's gonna cost 110 for a full hour.

As many times as I wanna beat it, I can,.....as long as it fits w/i the hour....

I'm thinkin it'll only take 3. And I'd bet that it won't EVEN be 200. The car makes decent torque, but even that is augmented because of the 3.73's....put a 3.31 in this car, in its present state and this is what I got:
chris-p-bacon.webp

A pig on wheels.

So the prospect of the turbo looms larger every minute...and I'd buy that Chinee turbo.....if I thought a t3 flange wasn't too small for my engine.
 
#8,179
a91what said:
What time is the appointment? Do would you like a few versions of the tune with varying fuel and timing?
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it's tentative. if I'm going to spend money to convert it back, I'm more likely to blow off the n/a dyno run altogether.

The whole turbo shopping thing is a pain in the ass. I can find a turbo similar to the BW that was on the monster, but the gates would be external again. Good gates cost twice as much as the stinking turbo.

I'f I could find an internally gated mono scroll t4 turbo with a .7 ar I'd pay 500.00.
But instead it looks like I'm gonna have to get a Chinese mono scroll t4 with the same spec as I quoted above at about 300.00 as a stand alone. A good gate is 250.00-280., and a new water meth system is just shy of 300.00, flanges, and some tubing, and I'm back in the Turbo business at about a grand.
 
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