Tightening upper control arm bushings at ride height dilemma… need some help

[AeroCoupe]

If you have jack stands under the rear end then place the jack under the pinion of the rear end. Remove the other UCA and get the bushing replaced on the rear end. Use the jack under the pinion to rotate the rear end to get the bolt holes to line up. Do not adjust this while being under the car.

This will change the pinion angle back to factory as I’m sure that was out with the worn bushings.

 

[AnthonyA1234]

If you have jack stands under the rear end then place the jack under the pinion of the rear end. Remove the other UCA and get the bushing replaced on the rear end. Use the jack under the pinion to rotate the rear end to get the bolt holes to line up. Do not adjust this while being under the car.

This will change the pinion angle back to factory as I’m sure that was out with the worn bushings.

Got everything finished up today. Installed all the new control arms and bushings. I left everything a little loose like you said and took the car on a quick drive around the block.

The ride height got much more even. There went from being about a 2 finger difference between both sides, to now both sides having about the same ride height.

The right tire still sticks out a little more than the left tire though. It’s definitely less than before, but my right tire goes past the fender and the left does not. I’m going to just tighten everything like this, the difference is much better and you only notice it if you really look at both sides.

Thanks a lot for the help everyone

Check out the pics below

 

[Rdub6]

Looking good! Glad you got it sorted out!

 

[gkomo]

Does look good!

Would a panhard bar remedy the side to side deltas?

 

[Noobz347]

Does look good!

Would a panhard bar remedy the side to side deltas?

I don't think so.

The way the 4-link is setup, I would hazard to guess that a few minutes on the frame machine might fix it. Otherwise, there's not many places that you could shim left or right.

What do your upper control arm bushings look like?

For that matter, what upper control arms are you using?


Also: Measure the thrust angle.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Panhard bar would fix it immediately. You remove one of the upper control arms when you install the panhard and go to a poor man's three link. I ran mine this way before I went to a torque arm about two years later.

https://www.corral.net/threads/poor-mans-3-link.798076/

I think leaving the driver side UCA in the car in your case would work best being you want to bring the rear end over that direction. Now is this the best solution? I would say no but it would center the rear end.

If it were me I would do like Noobz is saying and have a reputable shop with a frame machine see if the car is tweaked. Then I would go all in and put a panhard bar and torque arm in at the same time and ditch both UCA's.

 

[nicholase]

Panhard bar would fix it immediately. You remove one of the upper control arms when you install the panhard and go to a poor man's three link. I ran mine this way before I went to a torque arm about two years later.

Sorry for the slight derail...


Curious. I'm installing a panhard bar soon with a bunch of other MM stuff. When you added the TA to your set up what would you say the single biggest improvement you noticed was?

 

[AeroCoupe]

The way the car plants in the corners. Can come out on the throttle quicker and it just takes more power.

 

[AnthonyA1234]

What’s the ideal ride height for me to set my car to in the rear? Should I make it equal to the gap in the front? A little higher a little lower?

 

[AeroCoupe]

I think that is personal preference. Mine has about a 1”of rake.

Front - 25" from the ground to the fender lip opening, gap from top of tire to fender lip opening is 3/4"
Rear - 26" from the ground to the fender lip opening, gap from top of tire to fender lip opening is 1"

Realize I’m running coil overs and my spring rates are not going to correlate to non-torque arm cars with either coil overs or conventional coiled springs. So spring rate and what dampers you run will also play a part in how you set the ride height up.

So a soft suspension you are going to want more travel. A stiffer suspension you can get away with less travel and run lower.

 

[AnthonyA1234]

I think that is personal preference. Mine has about a 1/2” rake.

Front -I’ll get measurements here shortly.
Rear -

Realize I’m running coil overs and my spring rates are not going to correlate to non-torque arm cars with either coil overs or conventional coiled springs. So spring rate and what dampers you run will also play a part in how you set the ride height up.

So a soft suspension you are going to want more travel. A stiffer suspension you can get away with less travel and run lower.

I did maximum motorsports starter suspension package with the bilstein shocks and springs and H&R sport springs. It’s weird cause my rear end always sat lower than the front. The front always seemed like it was still kind of high compared to what I’ve seen on the internet with those same springs.

Anyone have an idea of what might cause that? Could my front control arm bushings be shot and cause that?

 

[limp]

I did maximum motorsports starter suspension package with the bilstein shocks and springs and H&R sport springs. It’s weird cause my rear end always sat lower than the front. The front always seemed like it was still kind of high compared to what I’ve seen on the internet with those same springs.

Anyone have an idea of what might cause that? Could my front control arm bushings be shot and cause that?

Did you ever call MM and tell them about this?? They might have some answers for it....

 

[AeroCoupe]

Front Suspension
Were the front LCA bolts torqued without the suspension being loaded? Did you get the pig tails on the springs seated into the cups on the control arms correctly?

Rear Suspension
Are the spring isolaters installed?

The other thing to do is look on the springs themselves and get the model numbers off them and make sure they are the correct ones.

 

[AnthonyA1234]

Front Suspension
Were the front LCA bolts torqued without the suspension being loaded? Did you get the pig tails on the springs seated into the cups on the control arms correctly?

Rear Suspension
Are the spring isolaters installed?

The other thing to do is look on the springs themselves and get the model numbers off them and make sure they are the correct ones.

I haven’t touched the front suspension so it’s possible previously they have been torqued without it being loaded. The springs are seated correctly.

In the rear yes the isolators are installed.

So today I set the ride height with the adjustable lowers with an actual measuring tape. Turns out for whatever reason my gaps weren’t as equal as I thought they were.

My front gaps are as follows

DRIVER FRONT 5.5cm

PASSENGER FRONT-6cm

For the rear I went based off the bigger gap of the two front wheels, 6cm and added .5cm to that to give the back tires slightly more clearance since they stick out a little. So I did 6.5cm for both rear tires.

In order to get this even stance my rlca are very different, much like they were before. See pics below.

I don’t know why in my last post with the pictures of my car I thought this was all better, I literally had both rlcas set even and as you can see from the pics of my car in the previous post it all looked pretty even. When I put the actual measuring tape to it they turned out not to be.

Is it safe to drive the car with the rlcas setup like this? I know I probably need to get the frame straightened but I’d like to drive the car and do that in the future.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I would loosen the front LCA bolts and make sure they are correctly torqued.

 

[AnthonyA1234]

I would loosen the front LCA bolts and make sure they are correctly torqued.

Will do, do you notice how in my last two pics, how my spring on the passenger side sits too far rearward. It’s not flush on the perch like the driver side. Is that because the chassis is twisted?

 

[nicholase]

How are your door gaps? I really think you need you need to have a frame shop look at it.

I'd try measuring ride height from frame bottom to the ground. The fenders aren't really a precise indicator. See if your chassis to ground measurements are similar to fender to ground.

The crooked spring might indicate the axle is pushed back on that side. Use a tape measure to measure wheelbase on both sides. Just use points on the wheels or hubs you can easily duplicate on both sides.

 

[AnthonyA1234]

How do those frame machines work? Do I need to take any body panels apart or can they straighten the car as is?

 

[AeroCoupe]

As is but I will say if you have subframe connectors and it’s out of spec they may have to cut them to get it where it needs to be. My guess is even if the fronts are in a bind it’s not going to affect the rear as the front is level side to side. You just want to make sure they are not bound up before it goes on a frame machine.

 

[from6to8]

Got everything finished up today. Installed all the new control arms and bushings. I left everything a little loose like you said and took the car on a quick drive around the block.

The ride height got much more even. There went from being about a 2 finger difference between both sides, to now both sides having about the same ride height.

The right tire still sticks out a little more than the left tire though. It’s definitely less than before, but my right tire goes past the fender and the left does not. I’m going to just tighten everything like this, the difference is much better and you only notice it if you really look at both sides.

Thanks a lot for the help everyone

Check out the pics below

Now just sell it ot me