363 Long or Short block

[from6to8]

It is only a rule of thumb and there are a ton of variables that go into it but...

500 FWHP / 400 RWHP are both used to describe the theoretical range where it starts getting iffy.

With an N/A build, you're talking about a lot of RPM for 500 HP.
With a boosted build, Tuning mistakes, over revving, and lean fuel at the top, all lend themselves to revealing a weak 2-bolt main.

Again though... None of this is written in stone. The test for me has always been:

What kind of money am I putting into this block? Do I trust the block to keep the guts inside at the power levels I'm shooting for?

If it's close, spend the money on the upgraded block. If you got blocks laying around like pet turds in a yard... Meh... spares are good.


In either case, I would opt for the better block. Even if I'm doing a 500 HP N/A build, It would be solid lifter, light weight valve train, and I'd want to rev it to the moon (because is sounds badass).

Question for you and @AeroCoupe -

I'm just thinking out loud on a potential 363 build for the 94 at some point after the 95 is done and here's a short list of what I'm thinking. This will be just a nice fun weekend car for the most part, no track.

Dart 363
Performer 2 or SM2 ported
likely a 185 or 195 head
SC ( Why would I want a SC over a Procharger? I think I like the look and fitment of the SC and I'll also still run AC).
Will keep my current 1 5/8 LT headers

I know I'll need an upgraded fuel system IIRC? I think the car still has the stock pump on it and does have my modded 302 engine in so that'll be perfect to upgrade the pump if it doesn't kick out before then lmao. Then again at 268 K when I got the car they likely probably changed the fuel pump before maybe a few times; just not sure what's in it.

As for suspension it already has subframes , J&M rear adjustable lower arms, all of the bushings and ball joints are redone and up to date, tokiko blue shocks and struts, CC plates.

Anything else for the suspension I'd need to do and anything else need added to the list let me know. I left out all the other things like meter and TB but right now those aren't important on the list. This is just a feeler to see about when I potentially do something. I thought about just doing an NA 363 and maybe I'll hit 420-430 ish but with the blower and not crazy boost I should be able to hit 500 to the wheels from combos I read up on yesterday.

The 331 build I think I'll be somewhere around 340-370 and with a fresh engine I'm sure that'll feel a lot better than around 300 in the 94 right now. The Terminator is around 500 at the least to the wheels and so 420-430 ish might be ok; I'll see

 

[from6to8]

Then again this guy hit 500 at the wheel NA. I got to research the combo more but off top of my head it's a carbed Dart, 11.1, Edelbrock 195's I believe, cam is 235/243 .575-.577 on a 112lsa,


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87_nyjoCttQ&t=590s

 

[AeroCoupe]

A good NA 363 should be 500 rwhp without any boost (Ford has a crate motor that builds 500+ fwhp so a custom built motor should exceed this easily) and north of 650 with boost. I would run a minimum of a 205/225 head on a 363 but that is just me. The cam would be a solid roller and custom ground.

 

[from6to8]

A good NA 363 should be 500 rwhp without any boost (Ford has a crate motor that builds 500+ fwhp so a custom built motor should exceed this easily) and north of 650 with boost. I would run a minimum of a 205/225 head on a 363 but that is just me. The cam would be a solid roller and custom ground.

I actually spoke to Mark, the owner of the car in the vid thru messenger earlier and he shared his build specs and details on the car. He said it is very street-able even at low rpm's and I actually think I'd feel comfortable mimicking his build, though I'd be FI vs carb. His heads are actually Vic Jr's at 210cc and I might have mis stated earlier if I said 195's. I'd feel comfy going with those as the price does not look bad vs going with a TF or AFR 205. He said the Vic Jr will outflow any head in it's range.

Why solid instead of a roller or just your preference?

 

[AeroCoupe]

So for me it's being able to get up into the 7000+ rmp range and you do not have to adjust the lash all the time with good poly locks and if you run girdles on the rockers. You can run steeper ramps and high lift so with the proper cam selection you will make more hp.

Why not just run the Holley Terminator X?

 

[Noobz347]

I am also a believer is large heads.

I've heard all the arguments about lazy air etc... and the dyno s on that theory in just about every case.

 

[from6to8]

So for me it's being able to get up into the 7000+ rmp range and you do not have to adjust the lash all the time with good poly locks and if you run girdles on the rockers. You can run steeper ramps and high lift so with the proper cam selection you will make more hp.

Why not just run the Holley Terminator X?

Are you speaking in terms of software in running the holley?

 

[from6to8]

I am also a believer is large heads.

I've heard all the arguments about lazy air etc... and the dyno s on that theory in just about every case.

But it's all about properly matching the combo with those larger heads correct? Because just because someone has a set up with larger heads and the dyno numbers look good, it might be not so fast at the track LOL?

 

[Noobz347]

But it's all about properly matching the combo with those larger heads correct? Because just because someone has a set up with larger heads and the dyno numbers look good, it might be not so fast at the track LOL?

You're building a stroker.

That aside, even a stock 302 shows an improvement with larger heads and valves. It's all about filling the cylinders.

Now, you [can] choke it off with an anemic inlet tract and wreck the whole thing.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Are you speaking in terms of software in running the holley?

Kind of. Its is the operating system but its also the newer tech in the chips, boards, ect. that allow it to do more. I really feel like once you get past a 306 the stock ECU even coupled with a chip or QuarterHorse just has its limits. A 363 inch stroker is not cheap and then a person tops it with 30+ year old tech for fuel injection makes no sense. Spend the money and get a good injection system that has the ability to get the performance out of the motor. From what I have read the Holley has a huge following with lots of support.

 

[from6to8]

Kind of. Its is the operating system but its also the newer tech in the chips, boards, ect. that allow it to do more. I really feel like once you get past a 306 the stock ECU even coupled with a chip or QuarterHorse just has its limits. A 363 inch stroker is not cheap and then a person tops it with 30+ year old tech for fuel injection makes no sense. Spend the money and get a good injection system that has the ability to get the performance out of the motor. From what I have read the Holley has a huge following with lots of support.

Yeah I will study up a little bit more on the whole thing about the Holly because all I knew of was the software with tuning and the intake and stuff. I think I read some stuff where they got the fuel systems and all that stuff but a little bit I've read it seems like depending on what you're doing with the car has to spending all that extra money.

So some people would say it'll run good enough with the stock ECU tune and fine for what they wanted to do but sure I get the other side of it as to getting the most out of it for what you're putting in the engine.....

I'll have to see numbers of total cost buying all of the necessary parts the Holly stuff and then getting it installed. Matter of fact buddy of mine is doing a 440 right now and he bought the Holly harness and the software stuff. He paid the 300 bucks to do the online course or training of it but he said it's just too much for him right now and he's trying to get the car ready for mustang week so he's going to get a remote tune done.

He's more of a track guy but after doing a 331 347 and 408 and having things happen to each one of them he said he's not really going to do the track stuff anymore. I will definitely if I get the Holly be doing remote tuning and probably do plug in everything plug and play versus trying to wire stuff in and all of that so yeah

 

[from6to8]

You're building a stroker.

That aside, even a stock 302 shows an improvement with larger heads and valves. It's all about filling the cylinders.

Now, you [can] choke it off with an anemic inlet tract and wreck the whole thing.

I'd like to have a verbal conversation with you about this lol. If you want to PM me your number or I will PM you mine whenever we get time one of these days we can have a chat.

 

[Noobz347]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqeDuOZtYPs


For this test, they used the same cam across the board in order to compare apples to apples.

Now, apply to that a custom ground/selected cam to make use of the larger heads.