10 sec build, help needed.

thegabrielles · Mar 23, 2006

Just to show you here is my car.... For my best speed and ET run.
Using the spped it said I had to be making 450RWHP
For ET... It said I had to be making 409RWHP
Like I said dont believe everything it tells you, it is just a tool to give you an idea.
Of course I only ran low 12's, factor in a LIGHt CAR and the right set up and 10's are attainable, 10.90's anyway.

FastDriver · Mar 23, 2006

Blown95Cobra said:
Arent the 225's kinda big?

For this kinda power without forced induction, you should be trying to get as many cubes as you can. So, with a small-block, you have to go with a long-stroke 351 (408 or 427 strokers are the most popular). If you do, AFR doesn't think 225s are too big. From AFR's website: "AFR’s new 225cc is the perfect choice for 347 through 427 CI windsors engines operating between 4500 to 8500 rpm. "

The car is going on a diet. If its not needed it wont be there. Why wouldnt you run a coilover? Not really needed or just your preference?

Go coilover if you like. I don't think you'll need to in order to get the 10 second timeslip. I think your car will weigh in at around 3100 with driver and if you can get to the low 1.6s or high 1.5s to 60 feet, you should be able to get into the 10s for around 420 rwhp. That kind of traction can be had on softer 4cyl springs up front with drag shocks.

Good luck!

Chris

bluevenom867 · Mar 23, 2006

Blown95Cobra said:
Bluevenom867 did you mean heads when you said "You can get the TFS R headers for under $1600 still."? So If I get nitrous friendly pistons and now could the cam hurt me without spray?

Whoops,yesI meant heads...

Headers should be around $450 for a set of Hooker Super Comps

If its a "nitrous" cam,it will probably want the power band up a little with out spray (i.e more rpm befor peak torque/hp).On a n/a cam though I would actualy shift a little higher rpm on nitrous.

2000xp8 · Mar 23, 2006

As far as i know the FMS 393's are on back order for quite a while and have been. So i'd cross that one off the list.

To get into the 10's NA isn't that hard. My buddy did it with a 347 sportsman block (Ford sportsman), Street heat heads, victor EFI intake, custom cam, in a GT mustang. Car made 444rwhp. Went 10.70.
BUT, he can drive and has years apon years of track experience.
Similar car, FMS 347 (hyper version) extrude honed Canfields, rpm intake, custom cam, went 11.0.

You say street car, so i'm not so sure how great a C4 trans with No OD is.

If you go with a dart or R block, setup solid lifter and cam, to 7500 rpm you could likely go quicker, but it sure will get costly.

Blown95Cobra · Mar 23, 2006

bluevenom867 said:
Whoops,yesI meant heads...

Headers should be around $450 for a set of Hooker Super Comps

If its a "nitrous" cam,it will probably want the power band up a little with out spray (i.e more rpm befor peak torque/hp).On a n/a cam though I would actualy shift a little higher rpm on nitrous.

I looked on Summit's site and I couldnt find any high port style headers

bluevenom867 · Mar 23, 2006

btw,incase any one is confused.

TFS R head is "206cc" (from Trick Flow),the 205cc CNCed Twisted Wedge is a little more,but out of the box flows more and uses a standard header (I think there around the same price as AFR 205cc but not sure?)

The AFR 205 will actualy flow more than the AFR 225 untill .500/600 or so lift (IIRC,maybe it was if they both had the same valve size?)

I still prefere the TFS combustion chamber and valve angle even if another head out flows it a little.

bluevenom867 · Mar 23, 2006

Blown95Cobra said:
I looked on Summit's site and I couldnt find any high port style headers

These should be the 1 3/4" header... http://www.holley.com/6226HKR.asp

There a Hooker piece and they come with an adaptor plate.

Otherwise,they got a 2" TFS R header that I would say is deffinitly over kill unless your spraying a +250hp.

Heres there list: http://www.holley.com/types.asp?type=436

Blown95Cobra · Mar 23, 2006

FastDriver said:
For this kinda power without forced induction, you should be trying to get as many cubes as you can. So, with a small-block, you have to go with a long-stroke 351 (408 or 427 strokers are the most popular). If you do, AFR doesn't think 225s are too big. From AFR's website: "AFR’s new 225cc is the perfect choice for 347 through 427 CI windsors engines operating between 4500 to 8500 rpm. "

How safe is a 408 at 8500 RPM?

Go coilover if you like. I don't think you'll need to in order to get the 10 second timeslip. I think your car will weigh in at around 3100 with driver and if you can get to the low 1.6s or high 1.5s to 60 feet, you should be able to get into the 10s for around 420 rwhp. That kind of traction can be had on softer 4cyl springs up front with drag shocks.

Good luck!

Chris

I might go with a coilover setup but I'm not sure yet. If I do go with coilovers what spring rates should I get?

2000xp8 said:
As far as i know the FMS 393's are on back order for quite a while and have been. So i'd cross that one off the list.

To get into the 10's NA isn't that hard. My buddy did it with a 347 sportsman block (Ford sportsman), Street heat heads, victor EFI intake, custom cam, in a GT mustang. Car made 444rwhp. Went 10.70.
BUT, he can drive and has years apon years of track experience.
Similar car, FMS 347 (hyper version) extrude honed Canfields, rpm intake, custom cam, went 11.0.

Are these 2 cars running auto's?

You say street car, so i'm not so sure how great a C4 trans with No OD is.

If you go with a dart or R block, setup solid lifter and cam, to 7500 rpm you could likely go quicker, but it sure will get costly.

I'm not gonna daily drive the car so the C4 isnt really gonna bother me. I really dont want to have to buy a $2K block. That's why I chose to go with a 351 cuz they can take more than a 302.

bluevenom867 said:
btw,incase any one is confused.

TFS R head is "206cc" (from Trick Flow),the 205cc CNCed Twisted Wedge is a little more,but out of the box flows more and uses a standard header (I think there around the same price as AFR 205cc but not sure?)

Why did you use quotes around 206cc? Do they flow less?

bluevenom867 said:
These should be the 1 3/4" header... http://www.holley.com/6226HKR.asp

There a Hooker piece and they come with an adaptor plate.

Otherwise,they got a 2" TFS R header that I would say is deffinitly over kill unless your spraying a +250hp.

Heres there list: http://www.holley.com/types.asp?type=436

I think I'll go with either AFR or Twisted Wedge heads to keep it simple lol

bluevenom867 · Mar 23, 2006

Blown95Cobra said:
How safe is a 408 at 8500 RPM?

Put it this way...how long will it be a 408 at 8500rpm? (with a stockblock anyhow...)

With the 351W 3" main,I would keep it under 7500rpm.You dont need 8500rpms anyhow,thats just cost more for parts that wear out faster!

Blown95Cobra · Mar 23, 2006

bluevenom867 said:
Put it this way...how long will it be a 408 at 8500rpm? (with a stockblock anyhow...)

With the 351W 3" main,I would keep it under 7500rpm.You dont need 8500rpms anyhow,thats just cost more for parts that wear out faster!

I figured 7000-7500 would be about it.

2000xp8 · Mar 24, 2006

The cars i spoke of both had 5 speeds, one t5, one tremec (non tko).
Overdrive sounds like an uneeded luxury item, but try driving it to the track on a road that requires you go no slower than 55mph. Car will be screaming.
It never really sounded like your DD.
My car isn't a DD either and i couldn't imagine not being able to put it in 5th on the highway.
Trouble is that if you want a built auto with OD, they are so damn expensive.

FastDriver · Mar 24, 2006

I don't know what spring rates to go with.

You don't want to spin a 408 to 8500 rpm for four reasons: First, the FMS block will not hold up. 2nd, any car making it's power at that rpm range will not be a streetable car down low. 3rd, the cost of balancing and of the internals necessary to pull that off is unnecessarily expensive. 4th, you can run 10s without running it to high rpm.

Chris

Blown95Cobra · Mar 24, 2006

I just found a complete 97 roller 351 for $225. Would that be good for a 408 build or is the block too weak? Either way I'm gonna pick that up to use or sell.

onefaststang · Mar 25, 2006

Personally, with the type of questions your asking, you rnot ready to build a 10 second car. I think you need to re-think your goals and start from there. It takes a lot more than just horsepower to run 10's, and not many people realize that. Your going to have to build one hell of a motor to run those numbers NA, and factory blocks are not going to handle that. If you want to build a solid 12 second car, sure pick up the 97 roller block. It will work great.

I built my notch with a 87 351w block, then proceded to split it right down the middle ruining all the parts inside. It cost even more money to do it twice then it does to do it right the first time.

Blown95Cobra · Mar 25, 2006

I've thought this over a bit and I've got it figured out. Start with that roller 351, rebuild it with slightly higher compression (9.5:1 or 10:1), Performer RPM heads, and a cam, intake, carb package. Then build a motor on the side and off this hatch and get a coupe for my new motor.

After reading this thread I think I'm gonna skip the NA approach and go with a turbo setup. Forced induction is gonna take more money but upgrades and control over power is alot easier. I appreciate all of the help from everyone, there is alot of great info in this thread.

Thanks guys

2000xp8 · Mar 25, 2006

Not sure if you truely know what you are getting into with a turbo setup. Expect to have a $15-$20,000 dollar engine by the time it's done, and it will literally be a race car.

I kinda agree with what onefaststang said above your post. Shoot for 12's-mid 11's and be happy. A 10 second fox is a wild machine.

bluevenom867 · Mar 25, 2006

Just do a blow through carb with certrifical super charger,easy to set-up and not real expensive.Makes alot of power.

http://www.csucarbs.com/

Give these guys a call and ask them about a set up with something like a ProCharger D1SC.Streetable (and realitively easy on parts) 700hp sound good?

Rick 91GT · Mar 25, 2006

bluevenom867 said:
Just do a blow through carb with certrifical super charger,easy to set-up and not real expensive.Makes alot of power.

http://www.csucarbs.com/

Give these guys a call and ask them about a set up with something like a ProCharger D1SC.Streetable (and realitively easy on parts) 700hp sound good?

bluevenom867 · Mar 25, 2006

Rick 91GT said:

Lol,yea Rick knows about blowers....they really "suck".

That was a F1R,right?

Blown95Cobra · Mar 26, 2006

I'm gonna use a turbo since I can crank up the boost on race gas and then turn it down on pump. I had thought about a blow through setup but I'm not sure yet. Is there any reason you chose a blower over a turbo?

10 sec build, help needed.

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