1965 mustang engine rebuild

[65stang289v2]

Hi to all,

Just bought my first classic car a couple of months ago; 1965 mustang coupe 289 v2 manual transmission, 2.80:1 rear-end.

The car is original, all numbers matching; I've done the decoding of all major parts.

The car has 77,000 original miles.

Unfortunately, the previous owner did not do a very good job of maintaining the engine. So the engine was in the shop for peripheral maintenance; the most major being full transmission rebuilt.

The car runs good, but now my mechanic is telling me that might need to change lifters.

Sorry for bragging on too long, here is my predicament; I've read that lifter replacement should be coupled with cam replacement due to lobe wear of the cam.
So now, I don't know what cam to choose.

I've read that I should go for a hydraulic cam and not solid lift cam.

I want the car to be as close to original as possible but with a few extra ponnies, when I need them.

I also read that CompCams make good cams for classic 289s.

I'm looking in keeping the stock 2barrel carb; and have the original intake manifold with the original headers; only mod in my car is the K-code exhaust set-up; dual mufflers all way to the back.

Can you recommend a suitable cam?
What duration should it have?
Apart from lifters should I also change the valve springs (I changed the timing chain and sprockets as part of the tuning)?
How about valves or rocker arms?
If I were to go the upgrade route, I was thinking of using shelby reproduction engine parts; for exhaust manifold, heads only. But then I presume I'll have to also change the intake and carb right?

All in all I want to keep the car as close to concourse as possible but with a better cam. If I don't change any peripheral components (i.e. heads, headers, intake, carb), will it make a difference?

I would appreciate any input.

Thanks in advance.

 

[65stang289v2]

Anyone?

 

[krash kendall]

The engine guys usually aren't here on the weekend.

Welcome to Stangnet!

I would imagine that odometer has been around at least once, so yeah I'd probably buy a mild aftermarket cam and lifter set if you are keeping the two barrel.

 

[68RustBucket]

take a trip over to the Comp Cams website. they have an online catalog that has cams for 289's, and descriptions of what each one is used for. There are a few that are based on original specs, so go check them out.

Just swapping cams, you probably won't get anything significant out of the motor. You can get some work done on the heads and still keep them original looking. New cam + worked heads will help you out a bit, but then you'd probably have to take a look at the intake and carb.

Really, this is getting far out of what you wanted to do, so i'm just going to take my leave and let you decide exactly what you want

 

[65stang289v2]

Thanks for the information.

I've made up my mind, I want to keep that car as original as possible.

The car originally had a starter - flywheel problem; starter was eating away the ring gears, to the point that the engine wouldn't turn.

So I took it to my mechanic just for that, and ended up, doing a whole tranny rebuild (was kicking out 3rd gear), gaskets in oil pan and heads, water pump hence timing chain and sprockets and timing cover, distributor rebuild, new hoses, oil pump, floater in the gas tank, clutch and whatever else goes with it, ring gears, starter, and some other things I may have missed; don't have in the invoice in front of me.

So my mechanic does an oil flush and now tells me (and I can hear it also) that I have a lifter problem; I hear a banging when the engine warms up.

My question is can I get away with changing only the lifters, or should I replace the cam also? If I go this far should I also replace valve springs, check and replace Rocker arms and and everything else (ultimately engine rebuild)?

Although one part of me wants to open the motor and get all mechanics done and get this out of the way, I just don't want to open up 'pandora's box (I' afraid to)'.

Please help me on this one.

Thanks in advance.

 

[302 coupe]

you can replace lifters without replacing the cam. But, you cannot use a new cam with old lifters. Since you want to keep the stock intake/carb/exhaust, etc, you might as well keep the stock cam. You won't free up any ponies just with a bigger cam because the other stuff will be choking it. There are alot of 'original' cars that have period correct aftermarket intakes and 4 barrel carbs, shelby style headers, etc, so its not like you'll be losing any valuable originality points by ditching the stock 2 barrel stuff. Only problem is, should you decide to upgrade, you might as well pull the engine and rebuild it, otherwise you're pretty much wasting your time trying to build more power into it. By the sound of things, you'd be happier right now to just install some new lifters and enjoy driving it for a while.

 

[65stang289v2]

Thanks a million. :SNSign:

You can't imagine how sadded I was when I heard my mechanic say these words.

The car is a blast to drive! The 2.80:1 gears allow me to do a lot of highway driving (I've put on 2,000miles in 3months), as well as the 4speed allows good acceleration.

So when I took it to the shop for ring gears, and then heard the problems it has, I was torn.

I want to drive it for a while as is, and then, when I plan on upgrading, I'm definitely going to go the original route, and try to build a shelby clone project.

Thanks for the advice on the originality part, I've read from various sources on the wonders Shelby has done with this 289; that's the major reason why I bought my 65. Headers and the 4 barrel, as well as the intake manifold, and we'll see from there. I'm sure that once I start that route I'll really be opening a whole new can of worms and will be back for a lot of questions, needing your valuable expertise.

Thanks again.

Hopefully, Ford Corporate will not have killed the hobby with their outrageous demands on classic Ford parts by then .

Thanks a lot.

 

[65stang289v2]

How do I go about changing the lifters? Removing the intake manifold and heads or do I need to take the engine out?

What else can I change with minimum hassle, i.e. not taking the engine out of the engine bay? Valve springs, push rods and rocker arms? Will I see any difference, or do I need to change the camshaft to see any real difference?
In the event that I have to change the cam to a warm cam (nothing extreme), can I keep the original distributor or would that need upgrade also?

What type of lifters should I get? hydraulic or mechanical?

I'm really confused here. I trying to figure a way of putting the puzzle together.

Any feedback much appreciated.

 

[jtfairlane]

How do I go about changing the lifters? Removing the intake manifold and heads or do I need to take the engine out?

What else can I change with minimum hassle, i.e. not taking the engine out of the engine bay? Valve springs, push rods and rocker arms? Will I see any difference, or do I need to change the camshaft to see any real difference?
In the event that I have to change the cam to a warm cam (nothing extreme), can I keep the original distributor or would that need upgrade also?

What type of lifters should I get? hydraulic or mechanical?

I'm really confused here. I trying to figure a way of putting the puzzle together.

Any feedback much appreciated.

In order to change the lifters, you need to remove the valve covers, loosten the nuts on the rocker arms and remove the pushrods. You also need to remove the intake manifold to get access to the lifter valley. With the pushrods removed and the intake manifold off, changing the lifters is as easy as pulling out the old ones and inserting new ones. Whenever using new valvetrain parts, make sure to use lots of lifter prelube (you can buy this in small bottles), because regular oil will not be enough protection for brand new valvetrain parts. Lifter replacement absolutely DOES NOT require removing the engine.

As long as you're doing this, it requires very little additional effort to replace the pushrods (you have to remove these anyway to replace the lifters). Replacing the Rocker Arms is a little more involved, as instead of just loostening them to allow enough room to remove the pushrods you would have to completely remove them from the studs and replace them. This is not that big a deal really, as you would have to properly readjust the rocker arms whether or not you reused the ones you already have or replace them.

Valve spring replacement does not require removing the engine either, but it does require removing the cylinder heads to make it easier. You can replace valve springs with the heads still bolted to the block using compressed air in the combustion chamber, but it is much easier to do it with the heads off of the motor.

The amount of difference you will see from changing these parts will be relative to the amount of wear that each sets of parts has experienced. I can't answer how much wear they have endured, so I can't say either how much difference you will "feel". But, it goes without saying that replacing all of these valvetrain components at the same time will guarantee a stable and smooth running valvetrain, as long as the stock cam and valve stem tips are in good condition and don't have too much wear.

If you swap cams, you MUST match the type of lifter to the cam. Example: you must use standard hydraulic lifters with a hydraulic flat tappet cam. You must use solid flat tappet lifters with a solid flat tappet cam. You can also only use roller lifters with a roller cam. The point is, they always have to match.

There is no specific need to replace the distributor because of a cam swap. You DO have to temporarily remove the distributor to replace the cam, but no need to replace the distributor with a new one. The only thing is on some roller cam applications, when swapping cams it may be necessary to swap the gears on the distributor, but this is not a concern for your 289 if you are simply using a standard hydraulic cam.

 

[fasttback]

How do I go about changing the lifters? Removing the intake manifold and heads or do I need to take the engine out?

You can remove the lifters with the engine in. The intake will have to come off as well as the push rods. Most lifters will come out ok by pulling up on them, sometimes they will take a little more effort usually due to some build up on the lifter. They do make a tool to remove lifters.

And about your motor build (my 2 cents):

You want original, but also want more power - so you could focus your build on a "A"-code motor (225hp), hipo motor (271hp), or Shelby motor (306hp). You already have hipo exhaust, so maybe the hipo motor? Since you taking off the intake and carb, replace it with and original cast 4-barrel and carb that will give you some more ponies with no more effort beyond the lifter change. Of course, a new cam and heads will do a lot more for you.

 

[65stang289v2]

:SNSign: Thanks a lot guys, I'm as clear as a whistle.

I've learnt so much in the last week. I'll have a few more questions down the road for sure.

 

[Max Power]

You need to buy this book.

http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/showdetl.cfm?DID=6&Product_ID=2439&CATID=3

 

[65stang289v2]

Hi again,

Some brief history; my mechanic flushed the engine oil and put new oil; 10W30. When I picked up the car last month there was a knocking noise in the engine when the engine warmed up; my mechanic told me that it was probably a lifter, that needed replacement; the oil in my car had not been changed for a couple of years; when he did the initial oil flush, he found a load of gunk in the oil pan. So now that new oil was in the car, the lifters presented the problem, hence the knocking.

Now I went by my mechanic to look at something else, and when he put the car up on the hoist and listened to the knock again, now tells me that the noise is coming from the block; that it may be a connecting rod; and the safest bet would be to rebuild the whole engine; block and valvetrain. Please help me, I'm going mad!!

I read that the valves need tuning after you put a thinner oil grade in the car. I know that the engine is completely stock, and has not had any work done on it, but did not expect things to be this serious. How can a completely stock engine have a con rod knocking with only a change of oil? I'm going mad here.

Please help. I've poured a lot of money on engine peripherals, and gaskets, just to stop leaks, and change pumps, chains, distributors, clutches, ring gears, tranny rebuilds, and don't want to rebuild the engine as well.

Any help will be very much appreciated.