Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

I guess I missed it, but what happened to the 2 turbos off the grenaded M3 motor?

CarMichael Angelo said:

You're an "edit bandit" Dean. The stuff you write at first read, changes afterwards ( you add pictures)

Again your examples are skewed...you're showing me pics of apples and tangerines. You're showing me pictures of 5-7 plus liter race prepped engines with monster turbos, and heads capable of flowing 300+ Intake CFM making 1300 hp needing two tb's.
Look at my sign pic Dean.....that is 363 c.i.,.... one 95mm turbo feeding eight methanol swilling ports that needed two 100+ lbhr injectors per port, all breathing through one 100 mm tb. That made over a thousand hp at the tire...

I have an engine now that by all examples you've ever furnished, has never been capable of more than a 3rd of that in na trim.
The 10 second falcon that has the aftermarket head measures 273 c.i. and is breathing through one tiny little 450 CFM carb and is still making 423 WHP at 16p.s.i.

I guess I really need to keep the engine in its present form, and take it to that dyno today so I can see how bad the air box is choking the engine,...ill call the guy today.
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Yep, true dat. Edit add infinatum. (Mainly becuase I get It Wrong first up, often)



That's how I scroll....


Point is, Turbos run restrictor plates too. So do naturally aspirated engines. The NA BMW 7 liter V12's at Le Mans run one quite big diameter plate, and World Rally Championship 2 liter Turbos run a 35 mm restrictor plate. So do F1 engines, about 53 mm. So do NASCAR Carb and EFI engines. So does nearly every turbo production engine, including the Barra Turbo in 240/270 or 315 Killer Wot form (322, 362, 423 and 476 hp on Overboost). Its called the "intake manifold". Just because they do doesn't mean you must too.

Especially Will and Kelly's '63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14. This beast started with a 2 bbl 350 or laterly 4-bbl 450 cfm Carb before it went to a similarly restrictive 4150 4-bbl SDS port EFi system.



I'm not judging, just sayin'.

Air restriction should be upstream of the turbo, not down stream. Flow net analyses shows pinch points, and on production or race engines, engine noise, emissions or curtailing peak power is the reason for the restriction.


The ITB system works because of reduced air speed, and increase duty time to feed the engine, just like adding long rods, or a wider lobe center cam on an engine. Adding intake runner bends and restrictions always meters an engine, and pefroamce loss is a result. The Aussies found that adding cam duration within certain limits, adding intake volume to the EFI plenumb, and being free to take away or add ignition advance and fuel (witin limits) allows you freedom to get more power with less boost. within limits.

The idea is the same as running 2.5 " pipes instead of 3" to and from the inter/aftercooler. Its the same issue bandied about when you go for Four 2-bbl Weber IDA's on your 302 when you can do and reach the same horspower levels with one 4-bbl carb. Or toing down the came to avoid turbo surge. You change your turbo type, and dodge th turbo surge bullet by doing something better for performance. On a 6 ITB Normally aspirated EFi car, the air intake volume and intakes are made large.


Turbo guys taking a BEAMS 2 liter, or a Ford Broad Band Intake then diable the twin path intkae, and then run the pipes in small, and then say, hey, itsaul goode, Ned Bender. The extra cfm of a turbo raming Alien Air into Bishops andriod facial features features makes up for it. This idea needs to stop. Its an old idea, like a car needs back pressure or a carb can be too big for a turbo, a cam can bee too big for a turbo, yadda, yadda, yadda.


Maybee, but boost grows by restricting the air intake side at the turbo, and Ak Miller made a lot of TC-1 controllers that worked pretty good as a flow restrictor. It was Colin Townsend's Turbo 265 Propane 1970 VG Valiant that first figured out how to increase boost without turbo pressure line to intake restriction in 1996.



T04-equipped and running straight LP-gas with a tiny 4-bbl 462 cfm Impco CA 425 carb, this six-pack Val unleashed 375 rear wheel hp down the drive train. 480 hp from a carb that is normally restricted by the air valve to flowno more than 288 hp, or 325 hp from the converter. He modified it to flow more, but the lines are still stock 3/8" propane reinforced.

http://fa5t-drive.blogspot.com/2011/07/hyper-gas-hemi-t04.html?m=0

Colin Townsend said:

Colin also took a different route when it comes to blow-off valves; he hasn't got one. Instead, there's a large diameter butterfly at the mouth of the compressor inlet that opens and closes as the engine throttle butterfly moves. Careful adjustment has enabled boost to rise instantly after gear changes.

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WRC World Rally Championship 2 liter Turbos racers had been using the 1984 F1 Ferrari 120 degree Turbo V6 style of anti lag with down stream injectors to get a turbo spining. Anti lag came of age with WRC in the late 90's. In Australia, the External Wastegate Air Feed Line Pressure Close Off that was Tassone/Rodriguez developed Active Automotive~Maztech way of creating boost without restricting the intake flow made a farly stock stroker erupt with 50 psi of boost.



I'm sure a Small block V8 or 460 Lima or whatever runs real nice with a restricted intake, but its not an ITB.

But where's the other turbo?

The ITB cars with tubos are DETT Nissans, and they have big plenumb volumes ahead of the ITB's.

H-U-G-E.






They'd have two holes or one big ovaloid hole to the upper plenumb if they were 4.1 liter engines, and not some namby pamby 2 and 2.6 liter Mouse trap Automatron Motor. A 250 six, well, thats an E-N-G-I-N-E.






If your normally aspirated ITB equiped 250 feels more restricted with an upper throttle body inlet manifold, then its simple to add more flow. Add more hole volume and area. Both.

Don't avoid the issue because of some half baked idea about restriction and reduced diamater helping mid range response et al.


You've got the best MegaSquirt guys in the world to calibrate and help you. And if your gonna use a single turbo, then lets at least make that sucker blow some serious boost into the intake.


Love where your going with this. I like the way you think. I'm sure you'll make this rock, but don't think backward, traditional Lo-Po restrictive intake. Open up the thing, and don't be afraid to optimise that glass aquarium you have. It needs more room to feed the six gold fish. Or are they Barra Mundies or 'Cudas?

Its already got flash, give it some more vent area, and it'll have some Bash....

xecute said:

But where's the other turbo?

The ITB cars with tubos are DETT Nissans, and they have big plenumb volumes ahead of the ITB's.

H-U-G-E.






They'd have two holes or one big ovaloid hole to the upper plenumb if they were 4.1 liter engines, and not some namby pamby 2 and 2.6 liter Mouse trap Automatron Motor. A 250 six, well, thats an E-N-G-I-N-E.






If your normally aspirated ITB equiped 250 feels more restricted with an upper throttle body inlet manifold, then its simple to add more flow. Add more hole volume and area. Both.

Don't avoid the issue because of some half baked idea about restriction and reduced diamater helping mid range response et al.


You've got the best MegaSquirt guys in the world to calibrate and help you. And if your gonna use a single turbo, then lets at least make that sucker blow some serious boost into the intake.


Love where your going with this. I like the way you think. I'm sure you'll make this rock, but don't think backward, traditional Lo-Po restrictive intake. Open up the thing, and don't be afraid to optimise that glass aquarium you have. It needs more room to feed the six gold fish. Or are they Barra Mundies or 'Cudas?

Its already got flash, give it some more vent area, and it'll have some Bash....

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Just like the monster 60 gallon tank on my shop air compressor - air tools run for a long time before the regulated pressure drops enough to turn the electric motor on... A big plenum means that you never run out of pressurized air to fill the cylinders and the pressure never seriously drops off.

Add work to your paypal or credit card as a ship to address. My wife gripes about the stuff always coming to the house. If she only saw what shows up at work! The big heavy expensive looking stuff goes to work!!!

I honestly considered a street legal electric scooter for a work commuter. If only I didnt have to take and pick up my kids 3 days a week.

Looking forward to Monster progress updates this afternoon.

CarMichael Angelo said:

Today's the day off.....I have what I need to get well along with the re-conversion back to " fun to drive" status. What isn't here now is scheduled to be here later today.

I expect to run out of energy, before I run out of time or material though. We'll see.

In other news, the red Mini Cooper S is no longer my DD. I converted over to full BMW driver status on Saturday.....

It is far from cool, it's far from sexy, it's far from powerful though....But it's 100% BMW.

This dork-mobile is called an I3. It's BMWs attempt at a full electric. Mine looks exactly like this except that this is a standard photo...( I didn't wanna back it out of the garage)

" Why would you lease such a stupid looking car Mike?" You may ask....

It's got a160 mile range.
Employees get 15k off a 50k car..
I'm 3 miles away from the dealership..
This one has a gasoline powered backup generator should I forget or neglect to plug it in...it will always stay charged as long as there's gas in that tiny assed tank.
It's made out of raw carbon fiber...and CFRP. It's built in a plant that is powered entirely by renewable energy.
it lets me program it to either be cooled or heated inside when I get in the thing..........from my phone...
It's almost the fastest car from 0-30mph in the entire fleet,...with only the M cars being faster.
Oh yeah....it's electric....I don't have to buy freakin gas.

Today will be its maiden voyage as a parts scrounger when/if I get to that point.

I'm such a tree hugger.

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That's a face only a mother could love. My wife would say"Don't bring it home....

It's TINY.

A flatulent spell would probably blow out a window. but curious though, for only having a 3 mile commute, at what point does it make sense to go all electric? I'm 25 miles one-way and my 93 octane guzzling Infiniti still barely uses a tank a week.

hoopty5.0 said:

It's TINY.

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Is it now?

Thats a great start! Tylenol/ibuprofen and bed you go.

looking good Mike! you may still beat hoopty to the finish line with a running turbo car.