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Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

  • Thread starter Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
  • Start date Start date Aug 26, 2013
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    1978 2jzgte 6 cylinder american racing ar 500 australian head custom interior cyclone cyclone spoiler fairmont ford fuel injected futura indepedant throttle bodies inline ms3x roller cam snow cooler turbocharged
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droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
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#10,621
  • Oct 6, 2019
  • #10,621
Call it the Bonzai Kamikaze OR TojoZee.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
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#10,622
  • Oct 6, 2019
  • #10,622
I think I'll work backwards tonight..cause this project is surely going that way.

I started out this morning thinking that I would be able to get the engine cleaned and painted, and then work on getting the monster engine out.

I got the engine clean enough to paint. I wanted to paint it in a Titanium, but that color wasn't available as an engine paint. There aren't any choices at the local auto parts stores,...they all have removed most of their engine paint in favor of plast-dip junk.

I eventually chose a wheel paint. Its called graphite. It's heat tolerant, and chemical resistant. It'll be the new color.

After that I decided to do a leak down test to determine the health of the engine, the spark plugs all looked bad. They were wet with oil. But I didn't know for sure that I didn't do that as a result of of all of the work trying to build the oil pan with the engine upside down, and all of the oil getting into places it's not supposed to.

So I got out my homemade leak down tester, rolled the engine around to TDC on #1, and filled that cylinder with 100 psi.
The leak down gauge read 88 psi. Potentially 12% leakage . But it was a cold engine, and if I can trust the gauge,..I'll take 12%cold.

I checked 6 since it was also up..
Un acceptable. Over 40% blowing by the valves
I removed the cams, thinking maybe since the engine was dry
The valves might be sticking...now all of the valves are closed...I give the springs a little bump with the butt of a hammer to make sure they're seated...still showing 40% leakage., so much air coming through both the exhaust and intake ports that it would eventually blow my hand off if I tried to seal it .
and it was at this point the sht hit the fan.
I removed the head...it doesn't matter anymore.. I got one cylinder that's leaking like a bitch, the plugs show me more are likely doing the same..
It's like a BMW....stem seals that have been heat fatigued, and aren't keeping oil out of the chamber anymore. I need to see the tops of those Pistons....if this is a 50-60k mi. engine, it should have dry carbon on top of the Pistons..

Nope...each chamber is wet...each piston top is wet. I take the wire brush on my drill to them as I rotate the engine...



Each cylinder shows the crosshatch from the hone from 20 years ago,....there is no ridge in the cylinder ...the engine is clean...

Is this just a cylinder head fix?

I resign myself to doing what I can do...despite the fact that I've said the the oil pan is 80% done, I decided to do the other 20% and bolt the damn thing on.

So,..this is what the pan looked like before I started...

( Only I've been working on it already...there's now a dipstick port, and bolt down points for a baffle.)

I made this ugly sonofabitch...I wanted to be able to clean it should I ever have to tear it down again considering that it's attached to the side of the pain, and it's another one of a kind.
Once you get that thing clearanced, and bolted to the side of the pan,..the next thing you gotta make is a baffle,.to keep 5 Qts of oil where it belongs..( in the rear sump of your DIY homemade swap pan)
Then that gets bolted on,..using lock washers, and blue lock tite.

Then....nothing left to do but bolt that bitch on.

And you go into your pile of 2jay sht,..and bolt this thing on, and that thing on...



See the head gasket on the ground? The head is only sitting on for the pics.

I was so prepared to buy an oil pump, timing belt, and water pump so i could put this thing back together,..but now, clearly I'm getting the head freshened...who knows how much money that's gonna be?
 
Reactions: Olivethefet, KZGUNS and RaggedGT

a91what

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#10,623
  • Oct 6, 2019
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Mike how is it that you make the rest of us look like we get nothing done? Even with your bionic knees you run circles around most of us.
 

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
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#10,624
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,624
Bummer about the head. Is it common to go bigger on the valves on these engines? I’d go all out while it’s off and do it right the first time. That’s coming from the guy who didn’t do that on his engine of course.
 

KZGUNS

I can swing up to 11”
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#10,625
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,625
you can try lapping the valves and see if that works. put some dykem on the seats and see how bad they are.
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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Oct 7, 2019
#10,626
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,626
People like revving those engines to the moon and back. Did any of the valves look burned ? Have you done a water test yet...or a light test ?

That head shouldn't cost that much to freshen up. It's a smart thing to go through it anyways ? Without going through the head you would have doubts. We all know where that leads.
 

a91what

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#10,627
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,627
2JZ version 1.0.2.4.6.2.8.0.4.3.5.7.8.5.4
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Oct 7, 2019
#10,628
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,628
It costs 200.00 to re-do a 2jz head provided that it only needs the standard valve job. The guy at the shop stated that you could see the #6 chamber has issues just by looking at it.

So...200 more dollars (at least) to add to the swap total.

Given that I have to replace the timing belt..the water pump, and the oil pump (to be safe) that'll add any where between 325.00, and infinity,...
The oil pump is the killer,...I have to get a GTE pump, and not a GE pump. The thing looks the same, but the GTE pump moves more oil. and its a minimum of 175.00

Ive decided that I'm gonna ditch the Cobra Brake booster, and convert back to manual brakes. As much as I drive the thing, and provided that I can get the intersect point modified enough to increase my leverage,..even the boys at MM endorse changing to manual brakes when pedal feel, consistent performance, and getting the necessary clearance for a big assed engine (or in my case, that intake manifold) are objectives in designing a brake system.

As to my cylinder head dilemma,...I'm really curious to see if I can seal up the engine in some way so that I can pressurize each cylinder to determine actual cylinder leakage before I waste anymore money, and have to put the head on to do that, (like a new MLS head gasket) only to find out that I got something wrong elsewhere.

Maybe I go buy some 3/4 MDF and cut two or three layers together tonight. drill the necessary head bolt holes, and a hole in the middle so I can put some sort of fitting in.......I wonder if it would hold 100 psi?
 
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95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
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Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Oct 7, 2019
#10,629
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,629
Manual brakes with bionic knees... sure you don’t want to modify that intake, or send it back and build a custom intake?
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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Birmingham, al
Oct 7, 2019
#10,630
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,630
95BlueStallion said:
Manual brakes with bionic knees... sure you don’t want to modify that intake, or send it back and build a custom intake?
Click to expand...
Uhh yes I'm sure,
that I don't want to send it back.
Per Maximum Motorsports:
Q: Why would I convert from my power brakes to manual brakes?

A:
There are several situations where vacuum-assisted power brakes may cause a problem that can be solved by converting to manual brakes.

  • Mustangs with low vacuum due to a big camshaft may lose power assist at the worst possible time, greatly lengthening the stopping distance.
  • Some engine conversions, such as a 4.6L swap, may not allow enough room for the vacuum booster.
  • Pedal feel when road racing or open-tracking may be very inconsistent due to the vacuum level fluctuating from extended periods of wide-open throttle. Brake modulation and control can be improved by converting to manual brakes.
  • Turbocharged and supercharged engines may not have enough vacuum available for consistent braking with vacuum-assisted brakes.
In all of those situations, converting to manual brakes may be the best solution.

The red car had manual brakes. I had the same Cobra rotor combination that I have here...And the red car was a sonofabitch to get it to stop...( clearly, I still needed to do something to make it work right.)
I changed my intersect point, I had an adjustable prop valve, I lengthened the pedal, I changed out the master cylinder to a smaller bore size, and.......
It was still a sonofabitch to get it to stop.
( clearly, I still needed to do something to make it work right)
I'm gonna win on this one,..I'm gonna make this work.
This will be one of the few things I do that will directly serve the collective as a " Yeah,....I can do that" benefit.

I'm fighting the need to go downstairs and work a couple of hours...I need to get the car up in the air, get the trans pan draining, and get the drive shaft removed ( I'm already waffling, just thinking about having to be on my back, under a car where transmission fluid is involved)
Let's just punch in right now.....it's 6:20.
If I can stay on task, and not kill myself, I should be back here in two hours..
 
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droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
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Oct 7, 2019
#10,631
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,631
Cat litter. Get lots of cat litter. Antifreeze and ATF always seek ways to create chaos.
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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#10,632
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,632
There's a guy on the interwebs that uses a piece of plexi to bolt a head to and pressurized it through the spark plug hole. He also says a flat piece of that smooth countertop wood will work too. Also will let you check the head for flatness. If it isn't flat just stick some fine sandpaper on the board and sand away.

View: https://youtu.be/ad5ZnbzWP9s


Hydroboost is an option. Could always figure out how to make it work and you'll have great brakes until a line blows and you have no power steering or brake assist.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Oct 7, 2019
#10,633
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,633
Punching out. 3 hours later, but after a shower.
The engine is only being held in by its own weight. Everything is unbolted . The radiator is drained and out, the engine is drained of its oil, the transmission is currently bleeding out as a result of several missing pan bolts that I removed to allow one side to drop. The exhaust is removed, as is the drive shaft.
I could pull the whole thing given another 30 minutes.

But I'm tired, and it's gonna have to wait till tomorrow.

Save for the bolted on accessories, I may as well put the engine on the curb. Factory Forged rods that would cost more to have them removed from the forged Pistons than what they're worth. Pistons that only fit one engine on the planet, that is now cracked between the cylinders, a crank that won't fit another stock 250 because the snout has been machined deeper to accomodate a harmonic balancer intended to fit a SBF. A timing chain set that used to fit a 5.0, but because the chain that it came with was discarded in favor of the shorter chain that's on it,...it also only fits one engine on the planet.

A roller cam that requires major engine modification to retro fit the thing into a US 250 with hardened 3/8" chromoly pushrods to match. Drilled to accept a timing gear that requires the crank be modified to make that work. Maybe if I were in Australia...

There are 12 roller lifters that fit a 460,.....but only 12. There are 12 1.75 ratio stainless steel roller rockers that'll fit a BBF, or a BBC ,....but again, only 12.

Ill pull the oil pump, the cam, lifters, harmonic balancer, head and rockers...( who knows what I'm sposed to do with that sht.) the rest of the rotating system will stay intact,....and go out as scrap.
A tragic end to a story about a mad scientist that combined a bunch of dead stuff from several other sources to build it into one monster, only to have to destroy it in the end because it wasn't meant to be.
 
Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
Reactions: KZGUNS and RaggedGT

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
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Oct 7, 2019
#10,634
  • Oct 7, 2019
  • #10,634
Seems like I’ve heard that story before.
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
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#10,635
  • Oct 8, 2019
  • #10,635
It was fun every time you hit the happy peddle though. At least you can say you did it. Us guys will always remember and talk about the Monsters fly bys and its custom made straight 6. We'll also take it as a lesson learned. If you could've done machining yourself you wouldn't be going through this right now....but eventually I think the monsters heart would've given up to the fact that there arent any off the shelf parts to fix it. One off engines are for half trailer queens that only fire up to drive to the show parking lot with maybe a casual drive around the local area.

This new engine will be awesome and will be supported by the aftermarket for many years. You'll be able to drive it wherever you want and not worry about scarring up a custom one off crank.

Come on man....get that head done already.
 

jrichker

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#10,636
  • Oct 8, 2019
  • #10,636
95BlueStallion said:
Seems like I’ve heard that story before.
Click to expand...
That's why so many of us love belly buttons...
 
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Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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#10,637
  • Oct 8, 2019
  • #10,637
droopie85gt said:
Call it the Bonzai Kamikaze OR TojoZee.
Click to expand...


Once it's up and running, start painting Windsor and LS kill signs beneath the driver side window:

 
Reactions: General karthief

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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Birmingham, al
Oct 8, 2019
#10,638
  • Oct 8, 2019
  • #10,638
Head is apart..dude says he'll know if I got bent valves tomorrow.
I solved the trans adapter thing last night at 3am while lying in bed...I'm CONFIDENT itll be a first time solution.

I'll still need the pilot adapter thing machined, but the plate to marry the 2j to the 4r is a done deal.

If it turns out itll be like everything else I do though...itll work for me, but nobody else will want it.
 
Reactions: 95BlueStallion, KZGUNS, RaggedGT and 1 other person

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Oct 9, 2019
#10,639
  • Oct 9, 2019
  • #10,639
Hmmmm let me see....what car company has the rep of being stupidly expensive to maintain......
( hint...it’s not just those guys from BMW, that’s for sure)

Toyota! At least when talking about the 2jz. Now that I own one, I find out that despite the fact that the engine has two versions, and neither of them the same, there is a US spec version, and a Japanese spec version of both engines, ( that makes 4 different potential versions of the same engine)
2jz is just a different order for the letters BMW.

I need to replace the oil pump. Not that it needs it, I just want to do it to be safe. Google 2jzgte oil pump. They are out there from about 125.00 to “ Are you fckin kidding me ?”

The actual Toyota pump is what I want. A 2jzgte has a different pump assembly ( even though it looks the same outside) with deeper passages around the pump gears to move more oil because of the twin turbos, and the VVTI . After looking and looking, I finally come to terms with the fact that the 75.00 pumps are for the naturally aspirated 2jzge engine....and they don’t pump as much oil, with as much pressure. So,....I just paid 175.00 for a damn pump.

The water pump, timing belt, and tensioner are cheap enough, but just like all cheap sht...who wants to have to tear the whole front of the engine off to get to a water pump that started leaking after a year? AISIN is the OEM supplier for replacement pumps...but there are quite a few others out there too...what is, and what isn’t junk?

The head uses TTY bolts....and they’re cheap enough too. The last time I used TTY bolts was on the 4.6,....and to me the whole process was nerve wracking..
You swear to god that you’re gonna snap a bolt off in the head.
Now I get to do that again......yea.
 

a91what

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#10,640
  • Oct 9, 2019
  • #10,640
they dont make an ARP option for that??

yep they do https://www.driftmotion.com/ARP-203-4205-p/dm155.htm
 
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