Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

95BlueStallion · Feb 3, 2020

That would be enough to really piss me off.

bird_dog0347 · Feb 4, 2020

CarMichael Angelo said:
I took the head to a machine shop that has been in this city for as long as I’ve been here back in........October?

Back in October if you’ll remember...the guy doing the head, “surfaced“ my head with a belt sander. I had to take it to a machine shop after that fix his phck up. At the same time, the guy at the head shop tells me that he “clearanced” the valves, and basically saved me hours checking and setting the valve clearances using the standard method of checking them after the cams were installed, and replacing shims as required to get the proper clearance.
Well given that he was such a phck up, I decided to check him today.

Every valve is too loose....And now my choices to fix this are minimal.
1..I keep the cams in place, and use a goofy ass tool to compress the spring, and another goofy ass tool to hold the spring down enough so that I can remove the lash cap. I don’t have the tool.
2. I remove the balancer, now torqued in to 270 lbs again, so that I can remove the timing belt, so that I can remove the cams, and remove every single lash cap, so that each one can be measured to determine what can be swapped around to other valves if possible to minimize the expense of doing it right. Then, once I know what lash caps have to be purchased, and what thicknesse,..I can go about the process of sourcing however many of the 24 valves that I cannot get to come into line.

At about 10.00 each.

I've never had to do it on a car engine, but I've shimmed the valves on a few motorcycles and I was able to buy a shim kit that included many of the various sizes so that I wasn't stuck with down time... are there not kits available for your engine?

General karthief · Feb 4, 2020

I would have to take that head back to him and drop it on his foot.

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 4, 2020

I just called the guy...it went south quickly. he ended up telling me to kiss his ass and hung up on me, something about how he'd been doing work for 30 years..i guess he got pissed when I told him that evidently nobody checked his work.

I lose on this one...there are only a few shops that are truly qualified to do caliber work in the city it seems, and I seem to find all of the wrong ones.

There are no shim kits for this engine, each shim has to be purchased separately. I'm gonna walk across the street here in a while and see what kind of a jug phck that'll be.

jeremythedestroyer · Feb 4, 2020

bird_dog0347 said:
I've never had to do it on a car engine, but I've shimmed the valves on a few motorcycles and I was able to buy a shim kit that included many of the various sizes so that I wasn't stuck with down time... are there not kits available for your engine?

I replaced the head on a kz650 and between the new and old head I had enough shims. Lucky for me kz650 heads are dirt cheap...

Hoytster · Feb 4, 2020

CarMichael Angelo said:
I just called the guy...it went south quickly. he ended up telling me to kiss his ass and hung up on me, something about how he'd been doing work for 30 years..i guess he got pissed when I told him that evidently nobody checked his work.

I lose on this one...there are only a few shops that are truly qualified to do caliber work in the city it seems, and I seem to find all of the wrong ones.

There are no shim kits for this engine, each shim has to be purchased separately. I'm gonna walk across the street here in a while and see what kind of a jug phck that'll be.

My favorite. The "I've been doing it for 30 years" guy that can't pull his head out of his own ass long enough to open his eyes and realize that, just maybe, he's been doing it wrong for 30 years....

TOOLOW91 · Feb 4, 2020

Shimless buckets and call it a day . That’s what all the guys who put cams in these things and turn some power do. Obviously that doesn’t leave out having to do the work that was already supposed to be done but that’s the answer

Adieu · Feb 4, 2020

CarMichael Angelo said:
I just called the guy...it went south quickly. he ended up telling me to kiss his ass and hung up on me, something about how he'd been doing work for 30 years..i guess he got pissed when I told him that evidently nobody checked his work.

I lose on this one...there are only a few shops that are truly qualified to do caliber work in the city it seems, and I seem to find all of the wrong ones.

There are no shim kits for this engine, each shim has to be purchased separately. I'm gonna walk across the street here in a while and see what kind of a jug phck that'll be.

Hoytster said:
My favorite. The "I've been doing it for 30 years" guy that can't pull his head out of his own ass long enough to open his eyes and realize that, just maybe, he's been doing it wrong for 30 years....

Up until last week I worked with an ******* like that. He refused to keep up with the constant changes in automotive technology and **** up and/or misdiagnosed a lot of cars but it was never "his" fault because he'd been working on them that way for years.

I fixed a LOT of his ups. Technicians and machinists that can't grow their craft and knowlege to stay current need to go flip burgers.

RaggedGT · Feb 4, 2020

I have a hard time believing that a hang up is the end of it, that shop charged you for a service,and they performed it incorrectly . Light em up til they make it right mike

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 4, 2020

This just keeps getting better...local Toyota parts stores don’t have these things. The Lexus parts counter person looked at me like I was asking for some formula1race part. They aren’t at summit, they aren’t available from eBay, or amazon. The few places that sell these freakin things are either drop shipping them from some Toyota store, or making them custom. Whenever the 2jz had its hay-day, that day is gone. The prices range from 10 bucks apiece to 25.00. ( I’ll probably need 20). I went home for lunch and pulled the balancer off and removed the exhaust cam and the 12 shims on that side. I cleaned, labeled, and measured them. They are all within .002-.004 of each other...

Read that:.....I won’t be swapping shims around to be able to save any...they are all too loose.

I’ll need at least .006 just to get a couple of them to the high side tolerance.
There’s nobody to talk to to except some aftermarket mfg. if I call crower they’re not gonna want to talk to me about a stock setup, and what they spec for an aftermarket cam may have zero to do with stock sht. The company that resells all of the stuff I’ve purchased since buying this engine tells me that it’s ok to run the cams a little loose, but all of the valves need to be w/I 1-2 thousandths of each other..these things are all over the place.

I called Crower...that guy said he wanted to see the cams closer to the minimum...

Soo......24x10.00. 240.00 more dollars to fix something that was probably never wrong in the first place, ( The factory valve clearance) that got fcked up by a hack, that charged me 200.00 to fck it up. That I already had to spend 40 bucks to fix his first fck up.

What a day.

Therell be no reckoning with this guy. A two man shop that could give one rats red bunion hole how much noise I make about his crap work.

HotFox · Feb 4, 2020

And what made you check it now as opposed to when you just got it back or before you bolted it to the block? Honestly I'm surprised you did not know better Mike. You check anything that any machine shop does in short order of receiving parts back, if not shame on you.
Scott

TOOLOW91 · Feb 4, 2020

uhhh the 2jz is definitely alive and well. Lol

Guys are building them for supras and other stuff left and Right. Finding parts like stock cam shims is another story .

Toyota OEM Shimless Bucket (Individual)

When going all-in on a 2JZ cylinder head for a high rpm motor, weight savings at the bucket is very helpful. Shimless buckets are exactly that buckets that designed in various sizes which eliminate the shim and bucket used on the factory cylinder head. The weight savings is almost 50%, so that...

www.suprastore.com

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 4, 2020

HotFox said:
And what made you check it now as opposed to when you just got it back or before you bolted it to the block? Honestly I'm surprised you did not know better Mike. You check anything that any machine shop does in short order of receiving parts back, if not shame on you.
Scott

You have to bolt on cams to check valve lash. You have to remove cams to bolt the head on.....It made sense to me that I’d bolt on the head, and check the clearance...see the paradox?

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 4, 2020

TOOLOW91 said:
uhhh the 2jz is definitely alive and well. Lol

Guys are building them for supras and other stuff left and Right. Finding parts like stock cam shims is another story .

Toyota OEM Shimless Bucket (Individual)

When going all-in on a 2JZ cylinder head for a high rpm motor, weight savings at the bucket is very helpful. Shimless buckets are exactly that buckets that designed in various sizes which eliminate the shim and bucket used on the factory cylinder head. The weight savings is almost 50%, so that...

www.suprastore.com

Shimless buckets are twice what an entire set of shims would cost. ANNDDDD... they are for guys that intend to buzz the engine to almost 9 grand....( Which I do not)

droopie85gt · Feb 4, 2020

CarMichael Angelo said:
Shimless buckets are twice what an entire set of shims would cost. ANNDDDD... they are for guys that intend to buzz the engine to almost 9 grand....( Which I do not, well not yet anyway)

Fixt

TOOLOW91 · Feb 5, 2020

droopie85gt said:
Fixt

Exactly .

95BlueStallion · Feb 5, 2020

Mike, you may as well get custom cams, the shimless buckets, and get it done while it’s out. It’s only money, and spent once.

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 5, 2020

Just a foot note.

After removing both cams, and measuring all 24 shims, then doing the math to determine if I can make up enough difference to use the shims I have, it appears that I can make one cam work. It looks like the exhaust cam ( since it has a looser valve clearance spec) can be put at minimum spec in the range (.010-.011”) up to .014”

Because I’m using a cheapo-chinee vernier caliper to measure these things, and I need to be as accurate as possible with the measurements, I went to HF, and bought a set of cheapo-chinee micrometers. I’ll remeasure the shims tonight just to corroborate the first set of measurements, and reinstall the exhaust cam. Then tomorrow I’ll go and order the remaining necessary 8-10 shims I’ll need for the intake cam ( I’ll be able to use 3-4 of the wrong size exhaust shims to fix the intake)

And finally be able to get away with this whole fiasco for about 100 bucks.

95BlueStallion · Feb 5, 2020

I still vote for 9000 rpms cams and shimless buckets.

a91what · Feb 5, 2020

if we dont turn 10000 rpm at a minimum the earth will come to an end Mike....... you cant let that happen... can you... can you hear the people screaming....

custom cams cams cams ......

Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

My assy trans to myself

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Been here over a DECADE and still no CT

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If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

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If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

My assy trans to myself

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

My assy trans to myself

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