Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

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#12,081
95BlueStallion said:
The way I see this, it’s like marriage counseling. My wife and I went through it once at the 7 year mark. Everything covered in counseling had been said in private prior, but it didn’t get taken seriously until the uninvolved third party said it or agreed with it. Kate represents the counselor in this case, several of us meager forum friends as the spouse.
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She sees the whole car hobby as a giant waste of time and money for very little actual enjoyment in the end.
* That’s because to her, I’m the reference standard.
I have to tell her that I’m the opposite of whats “normal“ in this hobby. I go on to tell her that “ normal“ does one of two things:

They put Ford engines in Ford cars,
OR...
They pay somebody else $100,000.00 to put whatever engine they want in the car, and while they wait for that to happen, go with their wife’s to the Farmers market on Saturday.
 
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#12,082
Wasn't the 3K option floated near the beginning? How much have you spent since then both in hard cash and time that could have been spent getting the thing running well and working on other parts of the car?

What's the advantage of the trans you have over using the A340? What are the disadvantages?

I know you talked about it but it was some pages back. I'm thinking the Toyota trans is the way to go - it was designed to work with the engine and it's a Toyota trans and will be stone-cold reliable.

I'm assuming you'll have to do some fab work to get it to fit - which you had to do with Jayzee anyway. If a new seal or similar cheap fix can't be found to ensure your existing setup doesn't leak, I'd be looking at cutting bait and switching to the A340.

At the very least, you can check fitment (you still have it right?) and see what would be necessary.
 
#12,083
lemosley1973 said:
Wasn't the 3K option floated near the beginning? How much have you spent since then both in hard cash and time that could have been spent getting the thing running well and working on other parts of the car?

What's the advantage of the trans you have over using the A340? What are the disadvantages?

I know you talked about it but it was some pages back. I'm thinking the Toyota trans is the way to go - it was designed to work with the engine and it's a Toyota trans and will be stone-cold reliable.

I'm assuming you'll have to do some fab work to get it to fit - which you had to do with Jayzee anyway. If a new seal or similar cheap fix can't be found to ensure your existing setup doesn't leak, I'd be looking at cutting bait and switching to the A340.

At the very least, you can check fitment (you still have it right?) and see what would be necessary.
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To make an A 340 live at 600 whp, itll take a 600.00 rebuild kit with more clutches. One of the drums will have to be machined to make room for the additional clutches. The sun shell has to be sent to a guy that sells an upgraded planetary set, and that part becomes a core. They sell the new improved version for 700.00. The transmission needs a new converter...another 700-900.00. Then I'll need to have the rear tail shaft converted from the Guibo to some form of slip yoke design. The driveshaft will have to be modified to fit that. The trans is electronic with no manual control option available, so, I'll need a controller..400-600.00. Lastly, I'll need to adapt my shifter if it can be done..
So then,..let's add that up..
2600-2800 without the cost of the tail shaft and drive shaft adaptation.
Or, 3000-3200.00 give or take.

All of that versus the existing transmission..
That fits the car, that fits the engine, that fits the driveshaft, that is manually shifted, by the shifter that's in the car.
Thatll tolerate the same 600 whp.
Already.
 
#12,084
CarMichael Angelo said:
To make an A 340 live at 600 whp, itll take a 600.00 rebuild kit with more clutches. One of the drums will have to be machined to make room for the additional clutches. The sun shell has to be sent to a guy that sells an upgraded planetary set, and that part becomes a core. They sell the new improved version for 700.00. The transmission needs a new converter...another 700-900.00. Then I'll need to have the rear tail shaft converted from the Guibo to some form of slip yoke design. The driveshaft will have to be modified to fit that. The trans is electronic with no manual control option available, so, I'll need a controller..400-600.00. Lastly, I'll need to adapt my shifter if it can be done..
So then,..let's add that up..
2600-2800 without the cost of the tail shaft and drive shaft adaptation.
Or, 3000-3200.00 give or take.

All of that versus the existing transmission..
That fits the car, that fits the engine, that fits the driveshaft, that is manually shifted, by the shifter that's in the car.
Thatll tolerate the same 600 whp.
Already.
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I didn't realize that 'modifying to withstand 600HP involved machine, etc. That's a lot of opportunity for someone to screw up (you've already had it happen at various shops throughout this adventure). I assumed it was less involved - like changing input shafts, harder gears, etc.

Hope you can fix the leak.
 
#12,085
And i just got off the phone with the guy that i’d get all the A340 stuff from. I was a little conservative in my price estimate.
Itll be closer to 5000.00 to use an A 340.
And when it was all said and done, he couldn’t recommend a good source for the transmission controller, ( another 4-600), and..
even if/ when I do....Id have to put that bitch in “ D” and be done with shifting it.
On top of all of that...I’d still have to figure out a way to adapt the drive shaft.

What does the finger say? :nono:

Not just NO,...but hell the fck NO.

I don’t care if i gotta take that freakin 4R70w out ten times in the next month to get it to work right,...There is NOTHING simple about using that A 340.

So that’s the price I’m willing to pay.

Now,...on a side note,... the conversation did occasionally wander back to the 4R70w...When dude learned that there was a fairly tight ( which means less than 3500 stall) 10” converter currently in the car, his comment was:

“Thats way too tight,...I’ll bet it won’t fall out of a tree.”

I sht you not.

Guess what i’m gonna do next.
 
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#12,086
I hate automatics. Yes, they are faster. No, I don't care.

Since I dont speak 'auto' I think he means is that the car needs more RPMs before lockup to get it going with any kind of 'oomph'? Does Jayzee make no torques off idle?
 
#12,087
CarMichael Angelo said:
What does the finger say? :nono:
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Just more difficulties to solve. You like it that way, afterwards. Does Kate not realize that you like the creating at least as much as the driving?
CarMichael Angelo said:
Guess what i’m gonna do next.
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Before or after reinstalling the trans? I only ask because it seems you haven't really seen what it can do with a dialed in tune and a few other engine-related details. Just the same, he probably knows pretty well what he's talking about, and my guess is before reinstalling, because 40-some inches of socket wrench extensions are a hassle.

Dan
 
#12,088
dr. Dan W. said:
Just more difficulties to solve. You like it that way, afterwards. Does Kate not realize that you like the creating at least as much as the driving?

Before or after reinstalling the trans? I only ask because it seems you haven't really seen what it can do with a dialed in tune and a few other engine-related details. Just the same, he probably knows pretty well what he's talking about, and my guess is before reinstalling, because 40-some inches of socket wrench extensions are a hassle.

Dan
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Especially when it’s a 3/8” extension. There was a significant amount of twist in the extension before those bolts broke loose,...I was swearing that was gonna shatter and send razor sharp splinters of cheap Chinee steel into my face at any second.
The car was a pig during the one hour tuning session with Steve. The few times I drove it after that, it wouldn’t even foot brake the tires loose. The converter is the same one that was in the OG monster..and would easily stall to 3000 rpm...but it was behind a long stroke engine that was over 60 cubic inches bigger than this one.
Now it seems to be 2200-2500 stall maybe. I spoke to my converter guy just a little while ago..As I had already guessed, they didn’t open the thing to tweak the stall while they had it up there for the month they had it last time, and that was one of my requests back then.

So now it’s out..no time like the present to deal with it. I told the guy that I’d buy a different one if it meant that there was a better solution out there, but he told me as long as I wanted a L/U converter, i’d have to stay with what I have. But to send it back to him, and he’d cut it open, and see what’s what.
 
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#12,089
I know dude brought it back to you for free and all, but don't you feel like seeing what kind of hole a 12 gauge slug would leave in him? I hate hate hate people who don't do what they say, what you're paying them to do.

That being said, I am going with a manually shifted, unlimited stall option in my junk. If that costs me money at the track, a TH400 or a C4 will happily find a home.
 
#12,090
droopie85gt said:
I know dude brought it back to you for free and all, but don't you feel like seeing what kind of hole a 12 gauge slug would leave in him? I hate hate hate people who don't do what they say, what you're paying them to do.

That being said, I am going with a manually shifted, unlimited stall option in my junk. If that costs me money at the track, a TH400 or a C4 will happily find a home.
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I think that’s probably a tad bit extreme..I just hope it’s not another month.
 
#12,093
General karthief said:
It may only cost you shipping, send it!
Dude will make it good, if not it may still be worth the bucks.
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I expect it’ll cost more than that. it needs to have its stall tweaked by probably 1000 rpm. As long as I maintain the lock up function, it could slip to 3500 for all i care.
 
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#12,095
hoopty5.0 said:
Just dropping in to see how it was going there, Do It Twice Mike.

My house has too much glass in it, figured I'd toss a rock or two.
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It’s business as usual here,..except it’s always done way more than twice anymore.

It should be....Do it until I get it right, then take it back apart again, and do that twice.
 
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#12,096
The converter is back in the hands of PTC as of today. I’ve asked them to loosen it enough to show me between 3300-3500 stall behind my 189 c.i. engine. I figured that they had some kind of dyno to test the converter after they modify the thing, but evidently, they do not. They just take a wild assed guess.
This’ll be the first day off in a month that I don’t have anything I can do to ensure that the car will run, or to try and shorten the process when I get the converter back. Now that i’ve removed the transmission, i know what has to be done to get it back up there..It came out in two hours, i’ll bet it goes back even quicker. Ordinarily if this was part of the build, there’d be a bagillion things that i could divert my attention to, but it’s getting to the nitty gritty now...There isn’t a lot left to do to the car in its current state.

I guess I could look forward to my fuel delivery system. Right now, there is a single 340lph pump in the tank. When you do fuel delivery calculations, this is the math:
Projected horsepower multiplied by .50 for LPH on a forced induction engine. So,.......math time.
600 x .50 = 300 lph.
All of this is predicated on other sht being right too, i.e. -6 feed/return lines base fuel pressure set to 43 psi, a regulator capable of increasing at a ratio of 1 pound of fuel pressure per 1 pound of boost, 95lb/hr injectors, and decent high flow fuel filters.
I have all of that,...plus some margin....So,..that should work.

( Seems to me when I spoke to the aeromotive tech, he calculated that I was gonna be short on fuel delivery at the pump end ,....maybe i’ll call him today just to check)

During the short time the engine ran the last time..the baby bear muffler solution sounds like it’s gonna be jussst right...so I’m good there too.
The cams sound dead stock ( as indicated in the description),...I can’t say that I’d know what a cammed 2jz sounds like, and whether I’d like it or not anyway, so that’ll have to do for now,....pig.

The inevitable forged bottom end upgrade, and top end port/valve and spring upgrade requires that the engine come out and apart....And that ain’t happening now for awhile,...so again,...this’ll have to do for now. If there was some smoking deal on a set of pistons/rods out there, I would buy them and just horde them till that time comes, but it looks like everything i look at are all about the same price, and without having the cylinder bore checked, am reluctant to just arbitrarily ordering a set of standard bore pistons that i’ll sit on for months, losing any chance of exchanging them should the engine need something bigger.

It just doesn’t appear that I have anything that I can spend money on right now except the future converter mod, and/or the stuff to adapt some other trans should this fcker not work when I get it back.

I hate waiting.
 
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#12,097
Sooooooooo,
in my cartoon mind I can see Mike sitting in the monster and the LJK is screaming 'I Can't Drive 55' from the speakers while Mike has one hand hang'n on the top of the steering wheel nodding his head while making turbo2jz sounds
2JJJJJJJZZZZZZZZZZ--WHOOSHWHISTLE-- POP-POP-POP
2JJJJJJJZZZZZZZZZZ--WHOOSHWHISTLE--POP-POP-POP

And Kate is standing in the kitchen holding a glass of whisky and water mumbling 'my parents warned me about him'

:jester:
 
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