2.3 road racers in here.

blacksheep-1 · Aug 14, 2007

I'm going to build an 89 (I think) 2.3 for the local autocross track, I know that is an odd setup, but there are some Miatas that I need to get even with.
It has to be "stock", let me explain that one.
"Stock" in this case, means the parts have to be stock, the car can be stripped (including the addition of lexan for glass) but the suspension and engine have to be close to factory stuff.
It'a 2.3 so it has the 4 lug wheels/brakes/7.5 diff, etc.
Here's the plan:
I think the 4 lug GTs had bigger brakes, which parts will I need to swap over to make that work? (from ? year)
Will the vert front unibody brace and subframe connectors fit the 4 banger chassis? (from ? year)
Besides pulleys, and a cam timing adjuster, what cam could I use, and how far can you cut the head to raise compression?
Headers? (source)
What aluminum flywheel and clutch will fit (source)
I'm planning to use GT sway bars and springs (cut) with Tokico shocks, (I think the biggest rear bar came out of an Fairmont Wagon, will this fit?)
Where can I find some (at least) 9 inch wide, 4 lug wheels with the proper offset? (I don't mind massaging the fenders a little).
Anything else you can think of would be appreciated, those little turdhopper Miatas are very tough to beat on the short courses that we have to run on. HP to weight will be my biggest issue.
Thanks for your time.

sleeper_inc · Aug 14, 2007

Headers - 94-95 2.3 rangers
Cam - 89-95 rangers (its rollerized so you gain some power)
Rear - Get a ring and pinion from a bronco 2 with LSD and 4.10 gears (also came on rangers and aerostars)
Brakes - 5.0 front brakes (bigger)
Rear Sway Bar - 5.0 GT mustang

I think there are a lot more cars you can get any of these things out of, but I don't know all of them

fastmonkeywheel · Aug 15, 2007

Yeah, I love my Miata, can't wait to auto-x it.

SILENTCARL · Aug 15, 2007

For the 5.0L brakes, you will need 5.0L spindles, The brakes, Lines, and 5.0l Struts or shims for the 2.3L struts.

Stinger's website has a write-up on the conversion.

Go to the factory 5.0L Front and Rear sway bars for an inexpensive mod. These cars need Chassis stiffening, so if you can sneak sub-frame connectors through tech, it would be a huge improvement.

Edit: With out any mods, you can fit the 17X8's in the front and 17X9's in the rear. But 17X9's will rub if you don't do some modifications to the fenders. 4 lug wheels are available for a bargain on eBay.

RustBucket · Aug 15, 2007

Stock meaning they have to have factory part and or casting numbers? Since you're looking for a rear bar off of a Fairmont I'm assuming that stock doesn't mean it had to be on the car or an option when it left the factory.

The Ranger header can be found on models as early as 92 or 93. The cam that everyone loves so dearly can be found on any of the dual plug 2.3L motors in Mustangs or Rangers.

If you're allowed a real aftermarket header, check Pacesetter.

The hardcore circle track guys cut the head down to just shy of the lower intake bolts. (yikes!) That tells me there's some meat there.

How serious are you about doing this? You could drop a dime or two and find a late model 2.5L out of a Ranger. Sure it's got dual plugs, but you can put your '89 vintage head right on there, drop the distributor in there in place of the oil pump drive blank and you just got yourself a stroker motor. The 2.5 is a small main journal motor which affords you some fractional gains due to slower main bearing speeds. The beauty of it is that every single part has a Ford casting number and can be found in a production vehicle.

The 5.0L model brakes are a little bigger. You'll need the spindles from a donor as well as new rotors, calipers, and hoses. There's a little work to be done at the lower strut mount, but nothing major. You can also look for ARB (Aero, Ranger BroncoII) rear axles with 10" rear drums. Snag everything from the backing plate outward. Discs would be ideal, and possible depending on how gray that area is in the rulebook.

If you haven't done so yet, stiffen the car up with some subframe connectors. It's like Viagra for your car. What was once floppy and unpredictable is now straight, true, and ready for action.

Other than that, drag it through a Harwood or Unlimited Products catalog and get all the fiberglass goodies you can. Yank out everything inside that you won't touch or don't need on the track, and go spank some Miata.

blacksheep-1 · Aug 15, 2007

Ok, here's some developements, the car is a 1993 dual plug 2.3, (I have the title in my hands now) and FWIW, there is a 86 turbo 2.3 that would make a good rebuildable core that came with it.
Sorry that I didn't have that bit of info before.
That should give it the good cam at least, and I think 110 horsepower.
What is the wheel offset for the 17X8 (or 9s), is there a "GT" wheel or something that I should be awar e of that would fit? I have a set of 17x9 off of a 99.
Also, is there an aluminum flywheel available?
Again you guys have been great, and thanks.

BTW, I can't find the pacesetter headers did they quit making them for 2.3s?

RustBucket · Aug 15, 2007

I don't think so. I know there's still al long tube header made for them, maybe I have the brand wrong. Check with Walsh or Essy. i'm sure they still carry it.

Okay so you have the ol' dual plug motor. not great, but not a deal breaker either. The comment regarding the small journal motor still stands. All the dual plug motors had small journal blocks. You've got the roller cam already and should have the round tooth timing belt and sprockets. (93 and later only)

Does the turbo motor fit within the rule book? If so, we can head in an entirely different direction.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Aug 15, 2007

Never heard of an aluminum flywheel coming on any stock car. As for the brakes, as mentioned you can get them from any '87+ 5.0. Also what about using an Aerostar aluminum drive shaft?

blacksheep-1 · Aug 15, 2007

Aerostar drive shaft?! Sure, as far as the flywheel goes...well..uhm.. did I tell you I really hate Miatas?
The turbo motor seems like a good core to rebuild, it's pretty tired with ? miles and abuse, it still turn sover though, that's about it. I'm not sure mustangs had turbos in 93, thats a little too obvious (unlike the flywheel).
As of this minute my total outlay for this is ZERO.
I'm sorry for all the stupid questions I'm not familiar with the mustang 2.3's at all.

RustBucket · Aug 15, 2007

No, Mustangs were not available with turbos in '93. They were finished with 2.3 turbos in Mustangs in 1986 and in T-Birds by 1988.

The flywheel is easy enough to hide, but wouldn't you rather win on merit rather than cheating? Playing in the gray area of the rule book is racing, but cheating is cheating. I guess you could use Smokey Yunick's philosophy when it came to rule books. "It didn't say you couldn't" when it didn't say you could either

85_SS_302_Coupe · Aug 15, 2007

blacksheep-1 said:
Aerostar drive shaft?! Sure, as far as the flywheel goes...well..uhm.. did I tell you I really hate Miatas?
The turbo motor seems like a good core to rebuild, it's pretty tired with ? miles and abuse, it still turn sover though, that's about it. I'm not sure mustangs had turbos in 93, thats a little too obvious (unlike the flywheel).
As of this minute my total outlay for this is ZERO.
I'm sorry for all the stupid questions I'm not familiar with the mustang 2.3's at all.

The AWD Aerostars had aluminum drive shafts They just need the input shaft swapped over to fit the Mustang.

manny · Aug 15, 2007

i race a 1987 mustang with a 2.3L in the scca also in the ITB class. for the front springs i would go with 800 lbs and for the rear springs i would go with 325 lbs, also use the front GT sway bar and a 3/4" bar from a turbo or v8 t-bird for the rear. for rims i would go the stock 15x7 10 hole rims or if you can get them the 16x7 GT rims and for tires i would use the falken azenas, you cant beat the price of them. this set up is very very very close to what i run on the road course but i do reach much higher speeds. i dont think you are allowed sub frame connectors but if you can , get them. yes on the ranger header and if not check out racer walsh in jacksonville florida for there header, all you would have to do is weld a 02 sensor bung on to it. also get some 4:10 gears for the rear end, if money is an object get the rear end from a mustang with a 2.3L motor and an automatic tranny, auto's came with 3:73's and 5spd came with 3:55. with all of this and a good tune up and watch your tire pressures you should be GOOD TO GO good luck

RustBucket · Aug 15, 2007

About the O2 bung, depending on the year of the Ranger donor, he may have to weld one on anyway. The later Rangers had the O2 in the pipe just downstream of the collector.

Ask me how I know

blacksheep-1 · Aug 15, 2007

Mr. Manny, is that enough tire? These little tiny slot car tracks that we run on require the wheel to be turned about 90% of the time, there's virtually no straights, and if there is you use it to set up for the next corner, we also have single cone turns, which means you have to do a 180 in as tight a place as possible. It's really tight, in a
V8 car, it rarely gets out of first gear. But thanks for the info, your car is a great starting point for sure (I used to have an SCCA regional license, home track Sebring).
Mr. Rust bucket, I guess I'll have to make up for the lack of flywheel with superior driving ability.

Also those 99 Gt wheels, would they fit with adaptors and have the right offset, or should I just forget the 5 lugs and stick with the 4 lug?
I'm not sure how folks would feel about the adaptors and Rustbucket has me feeling guilty already.

RustBucket · Aug 15, 2007

LOL!!

I run '94 GT wheels on my '91 they're 16X7s and they're 5-lug. It can be done with factory parts and unless someone's paying real attention or you have some anal-retentive inspector, it isn't going to raise eyebrows. the 5.0 spindles will accept the 5-lug rotor from a Lincoln Mark VII 5 lug axles and drums can be found in the junkyard from Rangers and Aerostars. You'll need to find two vehicles because you need 2 driver's side Ranger axles or 2 passenger side Aerostar axles. Confused yet? If so, you can do what I did and bought a pair of 5 lug, 28-spline axles from Yukon and a new pair of 9" drums for a Ranger and I'm rocking the 5-lug. I had 245/50's at all 4 corners at first and needed 5/16" spacers to get the tire off of the strut even then they rubbed the frame on full lock turns. I'm running 225/55's now up front and they fit without spacers.

I'll tell you anything I know. Sounds like you've got a fun project in the works.

I was looking around at the SCCA website trying to gain some insight as to what you're trying to do. That's assuming you're going by the SCCA rulebook. What class does this deal fall under? Solo II?

blacksheep-1 · Aug 16, 2007

We were running NASA, which penalizes you for mods, once you get to a certain amount of points you go up to the next class. As an example I finished 3rd last year in class "D", Even with penalty points I was able to run DOT race rubber, but.... then I had to pick lowering springs, or trick shocks, or sway bars, only one though or I'd bump up to the next class. Some guys went with shocks/springs/bars which precluded them from going to tires. This system worked real well, however there were a few exceptions, as an example there was this miata that modded up 2 classes, by the time he got in my class he had a blower/springs/shocks/bars and race tires. there's just no way a stock Mustang can compete with that, I had my hands full with S2000's.
The next year they decided to run stock class-street tire, stock class-race tire, mod class street tire, mod class- race tire. They then broke the classes up at 3 liters either over or under. This was easier to police, but it basically cut out any stock type muscle car as you can see from the results. Andrew in the mod class is a pretty tricked up mustang w/coil overs, k-members, race tires, etc. Any competitive car in the mod classes is. BTW What they call a race tire is anything stickier than 140 tread wear rating. (there's an angle in their someplace, I just haven't figured it out).
I don't want to build a car just to meet local rules, it would be nice to run NASA as well. NASA is big down here, probably due to Grassroots Motorsports Magazine which is also located in Fla.
Here's a link to the rules page.
http://www.wedrivefast.com/rules.cfm

results page
http://wedrivefast.com/srfiles/21July07 competition results by class.pdf

Sorry about the length
and just to make it a little longer:
http://www.drivenasafl.com/

4bangen · Aug 16, 2007

Idf you want to stay with mustang wheels, the 93 cobras had 17 inch wheels and where still 4lug.

bhuff30 · Aug 16, 2007

BlackSheep: Have you been out to very many SCCA solo2 events yet? You plan to run H stock?

I'm very certain in solo2 stock classes, you can NOT gut the interior. Also, as the way I read the rules, for 'stock parts' to fit, they must be from the same make and model. This means, if you use an 89 mustang, you can only grab parts from other 87-89 4cyl mustangs. They are very clear that the parts need to be identical and would be interchanged by the dealer/manufacture.

http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf

In the past, I had great fun using my 88 2.3T in AutoX. I had to run Street Mod because of my modifications (engine swap namely), but still had a BLAST. Just go out and have fun before trying to be competitive. If you really want to be competitive, you'd find a better choice than the 4cyl mustang.

BTW, I still got plenty of 1st place stickers and placs running my 88 in auto-X, but there was usually only 1-2 cars in SM totally. hehe

blacksheep-1 · Aug 16, 2007

Locally I would run in modified street tire, since ALL the race tire classes have been lumped into 1 pile.
So. 93 cobra w/17 inch wheels would work (offset OK?) and I need to find some tires with a treadware of over 140, like 141 or something, or maybe 139.75. and some tire softener

Red_LX · Aug 16, 2007

FYI if you DO want to look into the Pacesetter header, it's listed for '79-82 2.3L Mustangs I think, because it doesn't have an emissions equipment fittings on it.

I know on mine, the engine revved a whole lot better with the header on it. Being a longtube, you have to eliminate the first cat, and you can get a reducer for it with the O2 bung already in it.

2.3 road racers in here.

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