302 Flywheel ringgear question

[CurlyA6]

Apologies if this is redundant, but I read through 20 pages of posts and couldn't find anything related.

I replaced the C-4 in my 1968 (302) Mustang with a Toploader. The flywheel that came with the new tranny, bellhousing, etc had a wornout ringgear. I purchased a 157-tooth gear and followed the directions to changeout (cut off the old gear, freeze the flywheel, place the new gear on the flywheel and allow both to warm to roomtemp together) and all worked well. Unfortunately, every fourth or fifth start, the starter gear prangs off the flywheel gear with a horrible sound. I've swapped starters, but same problem, and now the "new" flywheel gear is toast.

Here is what I think I did wrong: The flywheel is about 3/4in. thick, the flywheel ringgear only 3/8 of an inch thick. I noticed that I placed the "new" flywheel ring gear about center on the flywheel.

It looks like the starter gear is only engaging the front half (as in closest to the front of the car) of the flywheel ring gear, at least that is the ripped up part. Should I have placed the "new" flywheel ringgear flush with the engine side of the flywheel (i.e. as close to the starter as possible)?

My plan is to replace the gear again, but place it flush with the engine side of the flywheel. If anyone has encountered this problem before or has a suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks!

 

[2+2GT]

Every flywheel I have seen had a lip, you should push the ring on until it gets to the lip.

 

[CurlyA6]

Okay, I'll look again. Can you recall if the lip tends to be at the forward (closest to the engine) side of the flywheel, so the gear slips on from the transmission side (that would make sense if it were to be replaced with the engine in the car)?

Thanks

 

[2+2GT]

I would never attempt to do it with the wheel in the car.

 

[grainboy]

The ring gear should be as far back against the shoulder as you can. Freeze the flywheel, and warm up the gear with a popane torch if you need to, and apply the red loctite to the flywheel shoulder. Tap the gear into place, all the way back. On a worn ring, you'll see that only the outer edge makes contact, so after a few years, you can simply flip sides, and have virtually a new ring gear.

 

[CurlyA6]

Excellent. The ring gear came off like a champ, I'll try to put the new one on using your process tomorrow. The wear pattern is just as you described. Unfortunately, I still don't know why the starter ground the ring gear. My only clue is that the starter was very hard to remove, very tight in the motor plate hole. Perhaps I'll try enlarging the motor plate starter hole ever so slightly until the starter can be installed without binding. I hate the thought of doing irreparable alterations without knowing if it will address the problem. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[CurlyA6]

Ring gear didn't go on the first few tries, but finally I left the flywheel in the freezer long enough (10 hours) and the ring gear in the oven at 450 degrees, and it all worked out.

I think I found a starter with a slightly longer snout, maybe that will make the difference.

Thanks.

 

[Couped Up]

Excellent. The ring gear came off like a champ, I'll try to put the new one on using your process tomorrow. The wear pattern is just as you described. Unfortunately, I still don't know why the starter ground the ring gear. My only clue is that the starter was very hard to remove, very tight in the motor plate hole. Perhaps I'll try enlarging the motor plate starter hole ever so slightly until the starter can be installed without binding. I hate the thought of doing irreparable alterations without knowing if it will address the problem. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

I think you may have the wrong starter? IIRC there are two different diameters, and I think they're within the thousands. I'll try to find a link.

Check this out..... http://www.bcbroncos.com/ford starters.pdf

 

[CurlyA6]

Couped up,

That is exactly the link I needed. The key bit of information I was missing was about the backspacing...that the starter listed under "manual" would only work for the 164-tooth flywheel, and that the 157-tooth flywheel used the starter listed under "automatic." My problem makes perfect sense now. Thanks.

After changing the pilot bushing and flywheel ring gear, I put the car all back together with it's new "automatic" starter motor and the problem is solved. Unfortunately, I think I caused another problem. I must have screwed the re-assembly up somehow, because now a bad sound is coming from the bellhousing. Sounds sort of like the throwout bearing is not riding smoothly on the three clutch fingers and making a racket. Before I shut the engine off, I slipped the tranny into first (still on jackstands) and slipped the clutch to see if it was functioning...seems to work with no change is the bad noise coming from the bellhousing.

I pulled the dust boot off the throwout arm and looked through the opening in the bellhousing (engine not running) to observe the throwout bearing action. It all looked normal to me. Sadly, i think I have to pull the tranny and clutch again and inspect it all to find what I did wrong. From the sound, I'm guessing either the pilot bushing is eating itself, the throwout bearing is not correctly seated, or I somehow ruined the tranny input shaft while aligning the tranny on istallation (though I was careful not to use any force or place any weight on the shaft.). Sigh.

 

[Couped Up]

Sorry to hear that! I hope it all works out for you, and is something simple....

Just to cheer you up; I have a '68, Factory J-code, 4sp. car and awhile back I went to buy a "New" flywheel for it. After installing it, I noticed an issue with the starter location, and thought I had the wrong starter..... Then I went and retrieved my old flywheel from the scrap bin, only to discover My car had been Originally equipped with the 164 tooth flywheel, and bell-housing! Kind of the reverse nightmare you've been experiencing! Gosh I hate learning by Mistakes....LOL

 

[CurlyA6]

Makes me recall the old saying "what does not kill us only makes us stronger." Still sucks, however.