320 hp naturally aspirated

squekster · Jan 16, 2013

I have been sitting here thinking and I have come to realize that my 87 lx 306 according to all the
claims by the people who make all the aftermarket parts, my car has approx 320 hp. Underdrive pullies, msd ignition,E303 cam, Trickflow intake, 75mm throttle body& spacer,shortie headers
1.6 roller rockers, dyna flow exhaust. 75 mm air flow meter, high flow cold air intake, electric water pump. synthetic 20-50
oil. Each manufacturer claims a different increase in hp. so if you add them all up it's amazing.
Add yours up What do you come up with?. You might be very surprized. If you believe what I just said
I have a nice bridge for sale. These people who claim there increases in hp are full of you know what.

Mr67Stang · Jan 16, 2013

Untill your final statements, I was thinking, 'Who is this guy and how can he possibly believe this is an accurate guage of HP?' Nothing like a good bench top dyno to give a guy something to brag about. Similar thing is when guys put their numbers in a computer to calculate their "estemated" 1/4 mile time and trap speed but have never seen a real time slip in their lives. I spent $3K on my 351w about 15 years ago to find all I got was 13.3 sec @ 97mph... imagine my disapointment.

earleys94gt · Jan 16, 2013

Fast, Reliable, Cheap...you can only have 2

Noobz347 · Jan 16, 2013

I'm currently on my mobile but will someone please list his mods and apply real world hp improvements for each? Might better shed the light of day for the OP.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jan 16, 2013

squekster said:
I have been sitting here thinking and I have come to realize that my 87 lx 306 according to all the
claims by the people who make all the aftermarket parts, my car has approx 320 hp. Underdrive pullies, msd ignition,E303 cam, Trickflow intake, 75mm throttle body& spacer,shortie headers
1.6 roller rockers, dyna flow exhaust. 75 mm air flow meter, high flow cold air intake, electric water pump. synthetic 20-50
oil. Each manufacturer claims a different increase in hp. so if you add them all up it's amazing.
Add yours up What do you come up with?. You might be very surprized. If you believe what I just said
I have a nice bridge for sale. These people who claim there increases in hp are full of you know what.

I have a Chevy buddy who lives and dies by this mentality, and because of it he thinks his 355 makes over 400hp, despite the fact that he can't break out of the 13s and I walked on him with my H/C/I 302.

Even in a perfect world, you would only be anywhere near that number at the flywheel anyway...what you put down at the wheels is a different story.

90lxcoupe · Jan 16, 2013

No reason why you couldnt build a 400+ 306'' motor with the correct parts. But bolt on 302 stuff will make bolt on 302 power.

gearheadboy · Jan 16, 2013

Truth is you can make about any horsepower improvement you want with about any part in the right situation. I once had a fuel filter net me about 200hp. Or an air filter 100 hp. "you can get up to 20 hp" well ya if your current air filter is CLOGGED.

88LX5.Oh · Jan 16, 2013

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
I have a Chevy buddy who lives and dies by this mentality, and because of it he thinks his 355 makes over 400hp, despite the fact that he can't break out of the 13s and I walked on him with my H/C/I 302.

He must be one of those guys who has double hump heads and a 3/4 inch race cam, right???

jka · Jan 16, 2013

Well i'm a ford engine tech/ engine builder on the side.. and i will tell you it does not matter how many high dollar parts you have on a engine. Your parts must all work together to make hp. I seen alot of guys putting 750 carbs on stock engines that just have a cam . Well long story short... the wrong parts/combo and you will go nowhere fast

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jan 16, 2013

88LX5.Oh said:
He must be one of those guys who has double hump heads and a 3/4 inch race cam, right???

Yep, he has the heads and says his intake is a bottle neck and he needs a bigger cam to take advantage of his port work in the heads, it goes on and on. Despite all those drawbacks, he's still making 400hp somehow. Must be a 700hp engine with the right parts.

jka said:
Well i'm a ford engine tech/ engine builder on the side.. and i will tell you it does not matter how many high dollar parts you have on a engine. Your parts must all work together to make hp. I seen alot of guys putting 750 carbs on stock engines that just have a cam . Well long story short... the wrong parts/combo and you will go nowhere fast

This is why my engine work. I've seen guys with as much cash in their heads as I have in my entire combo who make less power.

ratio411 · Jan 17, 2013

You might very well have 320 horse...
However, if you put the car on a chassis dyno, you will loose 15-20% of that to the drivetrain.
So, then you are talking as low as 250 hp at the wheels, and that would be max, as in everything running perfectly.

God, I love bench racing....

FordRacing302 · Jan 17, 2013

squekster said:
I have a nice bridge for sale.

I know we should save this for the classifieds, but how much do you want for the bridge?

Dino Dino Bambino · Jan 18, 2013

squekster said:
87 lx 306, high flow cold air intake, 75 mm air flow meter, 75mm throttle body & spacer, Trickflow intake, E303 cam, 1.6 roller rockers, shorty headers, dyna flow exhaust, electric water pump, underdrive pullies, msd ignition, synthetic 20-50 oil. Each manufacturer claims a different increase in hp. so if you add them all up it's amazing.

No it isn't amazing. It's just plain silly. You can't just add up all the "HP gains" of different manufacturers to the 225hp that the engine produced when stock and claim that's the amount of HP you have. It doesn't work like that, and I didn't know that a 20W-50 grade of full synthetic oil even existed.
If your engine still has stock unported heads, I doubt that it'll be producing more than about 290hp at the flywheel or 250hp at the rear wheels.

88LX5.Oh · Jan 19, 2013

I think the point of this thread is to show how outrageous most companies claims are. And I guess most of you skipped passed his last sentence.

.

squekster said:
These people who claim there increases in hp are full of you know what.

JordanB21 · Jan 20, 2013

squekster said:
I have been sitting here thinking and I have come to realize that my 87 lx 306 according to all the
claims by the people who make all the aftermarket parts, my car has approx 320 hp. Underdrive pullies, msd ignition,E303 cam, Trickflow intake, 75mm throttle body& spacer,shortie headers
1.6 roller rockers, dyna flow exhaust. 75 mm air flow meter, high flow cold air intake, electric water pump. synthetic 20-50
oil. Each manufacturer claims a different increase in hp. so if you add them all up it's amazing.
Add yours up What do you come up with?. You might be very surprized. If you believe what I just said
I have a nice bridge for sale. These people who claim there increases in hp are full of you know what.

Underdrive pullies 3-5 hp
e303 cam 5 hp
trickflow intake 13-20hp
75mm tb 2 hp (maybe)
Dyna flow exhaust 10 hp (that's a high number, I felt I should be generous)
Shortie headers 3 hp (maybe, I remember shorties never really making a difference, longtubes is where it's at)
CAI+MAF 5-10 hp (increases with more supporting mods, like heads)
Electric water pump 0 or 5 hp (it really depends on how much of a load it is relieving from your car, 5 is a high ball number)
oil none

Using the low numbers, it's about 40 horsepower, which is semi realistic, over stock that is 265 horsepower. But account for age of the car/engine and to the wheels (16%). You should be at around 225 horsepower to the wheels.

If you want to hit that magic 300 N/A number then go with some aluminum performance heads, maybe an aluminum drive shaft, and a set of gears for better acceleration. Also, throw out the alphabet cam and go for a trickflow cam or a custom grind.

Anyone disagree with me, that's fine. These are guesses and are by no means accurate. Just saying that it is far from 320 horsepower.

And finally, you're absolutely right, the claims some companies make about their products are just dumb. I think it was in an American Muscle magazine it said upto 25 horsepower gains with an aftermarket off road x-pipe. Clearly they tested that under the highest circumstance and twisted it to sound great.

If I listened to K&N about my drop in filter, I'd have 15 more horsepower, and my mufflers are atleast worth 10 horsepower lololololololol. In a perfect world.

CarMichael Angelo · Jan 20, 2013

I believe every manufacturer is correct when they make their HP claims.
I do however, believe that the claim should be followed by " But only if........."
AND,......... ANY one of them BUT only one of them gets to take credit for their full HP potential gain.

(I did that so that Noobz and a bunch of others would't miss my intended point like they did w/ the OP )

I'm sure everybody knows that they don't believe that their products collectively add every advertised HP number together when combined on an optimized engine running at or above 100% V.E. They are referencing the gain when replacing the stock part providing there are supporting mods to allow the new one to show it's full potential. It all comes down to the order the stock parts are replaced,.

So......
Will I get 50 HP from that set of heads?...........
"Why yes young man,...yes you will"
But only if.......
"All that other junk is on there first".......
AND
"If you give me credit for the full 50,...you cannot do that again with any other manufacturer from any other part you currently have on, or will ever add,.... until you add a Turbocharger"

(I think I'll start lobbying to get the manufacturers too include that tagline in their ads from now on.)

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jan 20, 2013

Seems to me that from a legality stand point, these companies have to have tested these claims somehow, or else they would've been sued for false advertisement decades ago. Also keep in mind that these are engine dyno numbers, on probably a very well maintained/running engine that isn't vintage '80s/'90s high mileage, probably has more compression, doesn't run any front accessories, has a perfect free flowing exhaust, etc. I believe a lot of these claims are truthful under perfect circumstances.

ratio411 · Jan 20, 2013

88LX5.Oh said:
I think the point of this thread is to show how outrageous most companies claims are.

See, I actually think there are 2 issues here...
One, they are truthful in their claims of possible gains, but only when all other factors are perfect, as pointed out by MadMike....
Then second, we all hear what we want to hear, and automatically apply that gain to the rear wheels. But of course, to get the highest possible number for their claim, the potential is based on the flywheel power, and that was the point I was putting out.

I think everyone in the thread has some good points and that taken as a whole, there are tidbits of wisdom all over this thread.

squekster · Jan 22, 2013

Bullitt95 said:
No it isn't amazing. It's just plain silly. You can't just add up all the "HP gains" of different manufacturers to the 225hp that the engine produced when stock and claim that's the amount of HP you have. It doesn't work like that, and I didn't know that a 20W-50 grade of full synthetic oil even existed.
If your engine still has stock unported heads, I doubt that it'll be producing more than about 290hp at the flywheel or 250hp at the rear wheels.

Redline makes 20-50 synthetic at about 11 dollars a quart.

squekster · Jan 22, 2013

JordanB21 said:
Underdrive pullies 3-5 hp
e303 cam 5 hp
trickflow intake 13-20hp
75mm tb 2 hp (maybe)
Dyna flow exhaust 10 hp (that's a high number, I felt I should be generous)
Shortie headers 3 hp (maybe, I remember shorties never really making a difference, longtubes is where it's at)
CAI+MAF 5-10 hp (increases with more supporting mods, like heads)
Electric water pump 0 or 5 hp (it really depends on how much of a load it is relieving from your car, 5 is a high ball number)
oil none

Using the low numbers, it's about 40 horsepower, which is semi realistic, over stock that is 265 horsepower. But account for age of the car/engine and to the wheels (16%). You should be at around 225 horsepower to the wheels.

If you want to hit that magic 300 N/A number then go with some aluminum performance heads, maybe an aluminum drive shaft, and a set of gears for better acceleration. Also, throw out the alphabet cam and go for a trickflow cam or a custom grind.
I might have over estimated the end result but my point is, you can't use that logic
when calculating total hp. The manufacturers would like you to believe that. It's
a marketing ploy
Anyone disagree with me, that's fine. These are guesses and are by no means accurate. Just saying that it is far from 320 horsepower.

And finally, you're absolutely right, the claims some companies make about their products are just dumb. I think it was in an American Muscle magazine it said upto 25 horsepower gains with an aftermarket off road x-pipe. Clearly they tested that under the highest circumstance and twisted it to sound great.

If I listened to K&N about my drop in filter, I'd have 15 more horsepower, and my mufflers are atleast worth 10 horsepower lololololololol. In a perfect world.

320 hp naturally aspirated

squekster

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Mr67Stang

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earleys94gt

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Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

90lxcoupe

gearheadboy

88LX5.Oh

jka

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

ratio411

FordRacing302

Dino Dino Bambino

88LX5.Oh

JordanB21

Active Member

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

ratio411

squekster

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squekster

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