351 choices

carterjs · Nov 19, 2006

I posted a question a few months back about a 68 coupe w/ a 200 in it well about a week ago the motor gave out so now i'm faced w/ what to put in it and after talking w/ a few people they said either a 351 Windsor or a 351 Cleveland honestly I don't know which one would be more suitable for the car but I need descant horsepower that can be driven regularly

351w_swap · Nov 19, 2006

Get a windsor. Parts are much more easy to come by, plus you could stroke it to 408, put on some aluminum heads intake and aftermarket carb with a built cam to get good power. It is a small block and the cleveland is a big block so I assume that the c is heavier than the w. Maybe I am a little partial though.

Nemesis67 · Nov 19, 2006

You could do either. But I would prefer the 351W, which is what I am planning on using in my 67 Fastback. The Windsor has a better aftermarket and is more plentiful than the Cleveland. If you decide to use the Cleveland, try to find a 2V versus a 4V. The 2V has smaller intake ports in the heads which is good for street use. But if you plan on using aftermarket heads, which are harder to find for the Cleveland, then it wouldn't matter. But as I said before, the Windsor is quite plentiful, I believe they are available from 1969 to 1996 and have a lot more aftermarket parts available. The blocks from 94 to 96 are true roller blocks while the earlier are not. I plan on using a roller block in my car. But they are not easy to find and if the seller knows what they have they won't sell it cheaply. Good luck in your search!

Nemesis67 · Nov 19, 2006

351w_swap said:
Get a windsor. Parts are much more easy to come by, plus you could stroke it to 408, put on some aluminum heads intake and aftermarket carb with a built cam to get good power. It is a small block and the cleveland is a big block so I assume that the c is heavier than the w. Maybe I am a little partial though.

351W Swap... The 351C is still a small block, but it is slightly heavier than the 351W. The heads on the Cleveland are what made it so popular in the earlier years. As well as the main journal size on the crank. But the Windsor is now the favored motor.

D.Hearne · Nov 19, 2006

The Cleveland was never considered a big block. It uses the same bell housings and motor mount bolt pattern as the Windsor. It DID make big block power in a small block package. If you want something different and can find a good core or complete running engine, the Cleveland is definately a head turner. Back in the 70's to mid 80's, it was the engine the Chevy guys hated to run up against on a dark night. If you are close to south louisiana, I've got a good core.

351w_swap · Nov 19, 2006

alright, i guess im wrong. I was under the impression that the cleveland was a big block because i was told that i couldnt use it in my 65. I still prefer the windsor though.

D.Hearne · Nov 19, 2006

Whoever told you the Clevland wouldn't fit your 65 was wrong there too. It's a tight fit, but it's been done. The Windsor and Clevelands are both small blocks, the 352 and the 351M would be big blocks, even though they share the same bore/stroke as the others and the 351m shares many parts with the Cleveland.

Gud T.B. Blown · Nov 20, 2006

Nemesis67 said:
You could do either. But I would prefer the 351W, which is what I am planning on using in my 67 Fastback. The Windsor has a better aftermarket and is more plentiful than the Cleveland. If you decide to use the Cleveland, try to find a 2V versus a 4V. The 2V has smaller intake ports in the heads which is good for street use. But if you plan on using aftermarket heads, which are harder to find for the Cleveland, then it wouldn't matter. But as I said before, the Windsor is quite plentiful, I believe they are available from 1969 to 1996 and have a lot more aftermarket parts available. The blocks from 94 to 96 are true roller blocks while the earlier are not. I plan on using a roller block in my car. But they are not easy to find and if the seller knows what they have they won't sell it cheaply. Good luck in your search!

To rebut a couple of misconceptions:
1. 2V heads, which are all open chamber, are not optimal for street use because they are prone to knocking, especially with todays gas. If you go with a cleveland you want to get the 4V closed chambers heads.
2. There quite a few aftermarket heads for the cleveland. Edelbrock, CHI, and AFR to name a few manufacturers. Don't forget that NASCAR still uses cleveland based heads so if you have the bucks you can get Ford Motorsport and Yates heads too.

danny clemens · Nov 20, 2006

If you go Cleveland maybe you could get some of them down under heads. Those Australian heads are supposed to be better than the American heads but they may be hard to come by.

bnickel · Nov 20, 2006

danny clemens said:
If you go Cleveland maybe you could get some of them down under heads. Those Australian heads are supposed to be better than the American heads but they may be hard to come by.

the aussie heads are the way to go for a mild street motor. the have the better closed chambers and smaller 2v intake and exhaust ports so you don't have to rev the motor too high to make the power. 4v heads can be a bit edgy on the street with a stock displacement engine, now if you go stroker the 4v heads are good since you have a lot more cubes to feed.

Gud T.B. Blown · Nov 20, 2006

bnickel said:
the aussie heads are the way to go for a mild street motor. the have the better closed chambers and smaller 2v intake and exhaust ports so you don't have to rev the motor too high to make the power. 4v heads can be a bit edgy on the street with a stock displacement engine, now if you go stroker the 4v heads are good since you have a lot more cubes to feed.

That's the truth. When I rebuild my cleveland it's going to be a 408.

bnickel · Nov 20, 2006

pushrod power said:
That's the truth. When I rebuild my cleveland it's going to be a 408.

there are a bunch of different motors i would like to build just to swap into the car whenever my mood changes. a long rod, roller block 351w, next would be a boss 302 clone with a late model 5.0 roller block and aussie heads and finally a 408C with some closed chamber 4v heads. that's not something i see happening any time soon probably not even in my lifetime so the engine i'm planning right now is the long rod roller windsor. that will be the most likely power plant for my next project car.

fasttback · Nov 21, 2006

Another vote for a 351W (stroked or not).

Although the 351C was the Ford small block motor to have in the 80's (I wanted one for my '67), the 351W is more economical today. The availability of parts and people using them makes it more feasible.

I think the Cleveland motor is one of Fords best looking motors, and I would not mind having one today.

dablack · Nov 21, 2006

Just another note:

There is no such thing as a small block or big block ford. That nomiclature came out of the cheby camp. They only really had two motors the small block (283ish 327 350) and the big block (383 ish 427 454).

With Fords there are many more motors and they defy simple clasification. I'm not going to go back to the 50s so you have the FE motors (352, 390, 427, 428), the clevelands (351), the windsors (260, 289, 302, 351), the limas (429, 460) and the M (351, 400). Just call it what it is.

I think you should go w/ a 351W

mo'factor · Nov 21, 2006

351

I have a 351 Windsor in my '68. It is a close fit when changing plugs on the drivers side. I've heard that the cleveland is worse. As far as heads go you can run cleveland heads on a windsor, but they require a lot of modification. Headers are easier to find for the windsor. I am running headman shorties and they work well. Don't forget to get a bigger radiator either way because the six cylinder radiator is too small. I am running the 24" 3 row 390 radiator.

70dvr · Nov 21, 2006

I'm very happy with my 393W. If I were building one today it would be a
408W with a roller cam.

BB1966 · Nov 21, 2006

Actually Chevys were small blocks from 265 - 400. Big blocks were from 396 - 454...not counting the current 572 or the 502 crate engines.

fvike · Nov 21, 2006

Go for the Windsor. A friend of mine once had a '68 with cleveland, and changeing the sparkplugs was a weekend job!
If you want the Cleveland heads, Edelbrock's 351 Cleveland heads actually fits Windsors too, IIRC.

65ShelbyClone · Nov 21, 2006

dablack said:
Just another note:

There is no such thing as a small block or big block ford........I'm not going to go back to the 50s so you have the FE motors.......

The 332 FE was an option in the late '50s. The other engine option was either a 223 I-6 or a 272/292/312 Y-block.

For someone just getting up to speed, I would recommend a 351W. It shares a lot with the 289s and 302s, so the knowledge base is larger. I'd love to have a Cleveland, but I suspect the learning curve is steeper for anyone unfamiliar with them.

bnickel said:
the engine i'm planning right now is the long rod roller windsor.

Out of curiosity, why a long rod?

danny clemens · Nov 22, 2006

Ford also had a 221 V8 that came out in 1962. I had one that was in a 62 Fairlane and it was pretty weak. It's also in the windsor family.

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