351 Cleveland swapped MII

Bullitt347 · Sep 3, 2023

You could consider going to manual brakes and ditching the booster altogether.
This would make even more room available.
I have manual brakes on my race car and it hauls down from 160+ mph just fine, and that is with lightweight non vented rotors front and rear.
The pivot point for the brake pedal gets moved up so that your foot pressure on the brake pedal gets multiplied providing power brake effort and power brake performance without the booster.

Bullitt347 · Sep 3, 2023

78 Mach1 said:
Bullitt347. My current engine setup is a completely fresh 351C built basically back to factory specs. Factory pistons, cam spec, and 2v heads. It made 245 HP on the engine dyno post build. My plan is to put a mild cam (mild meaning street drivable) but with a mean sound. Honestly the sound of the cam is more important to me than actual horsepower. The perfect cam for me would be a good thump with good street manners. I have a Weiand tunnel ram intake. It’s a 4v intake that I was planning to put port stuffers in to bring it down to 2v type runners. I was also hoping the long narrow runners would give me really good low end torque. Again not for any sort of racing, but just to help maintain good street manners.

The end goal for this car is something that looks and sounds like a beast but actually runs and drives like a mildly built street car. All looks, and easy street manners. I know this sounds crazy, but I love the look of a really hot car, but I am too old to deal with the uncomfortable driving habits that come with it. So honestly, I’d love to put a cam that sounds good, exhaust with a deep rumble, a tunnel ram to look cool, and a single quad Holley for ease of tuning. With all this, my goal would be to maintain a good street drivable car.

If you have any advice to achieve this goal, I’m listening. Because at this point, it’ll be all trial and error. If someone can prevent some error, I’d really appreciate it.

The easiest way to accomplish this is with a Hyd Roller camshaft. It adds to the cost, but you get the benefit of driveability and performance. This is why all of the OEM's went to roller camshafts with their pushrod engines. If a flat tappet is a must, then more compromise is called for. With a hyd roller, you can get a lot of lift and keep the duration short, (better driveabilkity and throttle response) with a flat tappet, you are pretty much stuck with having more duration to get more lift. The higher the duration number the more driveability becomes compromised.
I don't know if going hyd roller is in your budget or not. That will determine which cam to go with. The flat tappet and hyd roller will be completely different.
I can break it down in regards to LSA, Lift, Duration ect if you like.

78 Mach1 · Sep 3, 2023

Bullitt347 said:
You could consider going to manual brakes and ditching the booster altogether.

That’s exactly what my son (who’s helping me build this car wanted to do. We had a 67 cougar last year with manual brakes and it stopped just fine as well. That will still be an option if this modification doesn’t work out. But at my age, I’m gung-ho to keep power brakes if at all possible.

Bullitt347 · Sep 3, 2023

78 Mach1 said:
That’s exactly what my son (who’s helping me build this car wanted to do. We had a 67 cougar last year with manual brakes and it stopped just fine as well. That will still be an option if this modification doesn’t work out. But at my age, I’m gung-ho to keep power brakes if at all possible.

"At your age"
I am almost 63
The manual brakes are not an issue for me with the race car.
Anyway, not my decision. Everyone is different.
This is just to let you know that manual brakes are not as bad as they sound.
Good job on the mods so far. Lots of people would not have the skill or patience to do what you are doing.

78 Mach1 · Sep 5, 2023

Bullitt347 said:
Good job on the mods so far.

Thank you sir. It’s been a life long dream build of mine. I’m excited to see it finally coming together.

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

Here’s the brake pedal bracket and booster all painted ready to go back in.

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

I did end having to notch the inner fender well slightly to clearance the brake boosters new location.

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

Here’s everything reinstalled and brakes bleed and working perfectly. Unless you really look closely, you can’t even tell it’s been moved I assume anyone with a Cleveland in their MII would know something has been done to make more room but your average person looking at this car would never know the brake booster has been relocated

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

In case some of you were curious what having the brake pedal moved over one inch is like. I don’t think anyone would ever notice that either. And I honestly like the little extra room for my boots when driving the car.

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

Next will be moving the motor over 1” and making mounts for the motor plate. With the motor mounts out of the way, that will hopefully make headers possible.

Bullitt347 · Sep 10, 2023

I assume you account for the fact that the transmission will be at an angle to the rear differential. 1" at the engine can be more than that at the tail housing. Or are you going to move the trans over 1" as well? And then deal with the angle of the driveshaft to the rear differential? It will be interesting to see how driveline angles add up, both vertically and horizontally.

Blackhawkxx · Sep 10, 2023

78 Mach1 said:
Here’s everything reinstalled and brakes bleed and working perfectly. Unless you really look closely, you can’t even tell it’s been moved I assume anyone with a Cleveland in their MII would know something has been done to make more room but your average person looking at this car would never know the brake booster has been relocated

Great job! Finding a solution to a problem without spending much money is always fantastic. My manual trans peddles are way to close to each other, maybe I should have you move mine?

2Blue2 · Sep 10, 2023

Blackhawkxx said:
Great job! Finding a solution to a problem without spending much money is always fantastic.

+1

2Blue2 · Sep 10, 2023

Bullitt347 said:
the angle of the driveshaft to the rear differential?

Interested in this also
Dang excited to see the progress !

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

Bullitt347 said:
Or are you going to move the trans over 1" as well?

Yes. I’m moving the tranny one inch as well. I also accounted for the angles when I shortened the 8.8 rearend.

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

To be more specific, during the calculations of the axle lengths, I calculated to center the yoke of the rear differential. Not the pumpkin since the 8,8 has an offset yoke. My assumption was if the yoke is centered, then centering the engine and tranny, would allow everything to line up left to right correctly.

I did install the drive shaft the other day to look at the angles with the engine in the factory location. I can tell you, with the motor factory offset 1” to passenger side and the rear differential yoke centered. I couldn’t even tell there was an offset angle. So I’m pretty sure it would have been fine either way.

But I knew from the start of this build that I was going to center the engine and tranny, so I went ahead and centered the differential yoke last year when I narrowed it.

I had a 77 in high school with a 302 and a single plain high rise intake. Couldn’t get a breather to fit under the hood, so I had to cut the hood. It drove me nuts having that hole offset. So there was no way I was going to not center everything on this build.

78 Mach1 · Sep 10, 2023

Blackhawkxx said:
maybe I should have you move mine?

If your in the northern Illinois southern Wisconsin area, I’d be happy to help you.

Just for reference, I measured the space between my gas and brake pedal on my 65 Mustang and it is 2.5”. The current space between gas and brake of my MII now is 3”. So it’s pretty close to factory of the average car anyway. It does feel much more comfortable moved than it did before.

Bullitt347 · Sep 11, 2023

78 Mach1 said:
I had a 77 in high school with a 302 and a single plain high rise intake. Couldn’t get a breather to fit under the hood, so I had to cut the hood. It drove me nuts having that hole offset. So there was no way I was going to not center everything on this build.

I had a 78' back in the day with a 302 and a Edelbrock Torker Intake manifold. I also cut a hole in the hood to get the air filter to clear. It was a fun little car. I took the FMX trans out and put a C-4 in it. The nose of the car came up over an inch due to the weight loss. That cast iron FMX was a heavy SOB. I hand ported the cylinder heads (first time porting) had long tube headers, and put 3.55 gears in the 8" rear with a mini-spool in it. I think it ran high 13's back then. I thought it was fast. Lol.

2Blue2 · Sep 11, 2023

Bullitt347 said:
I had a 78' back in the day

The Glory days!

Bullitt347 · Sep 12, 2023

2Blue2 said:
The Glory days!

Kinda wish I still had that car.
Thing is, with a II you can do whatever the hell you want and nobody gives you for "destroying a classic"

351 Cleveland swapped MII

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

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I have been doing it wrong this whole time

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I have been doing it wrong this whole time

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will be trying this sex one when I can find it

will be trying this sex one when I can find it

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I have been doing it wrong this whole time

will be trying this sex one when I can find it

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

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