351C questions

[67bluestang]

A friend of mine has a complete, carb to pan, 70 351C that i can pick up reasonably and it runs quite good, no smoke, etc.
This would be going into my 67 coupe with '72 C4. Any issues with this setup and any input appreciated as far as the cleveland goes.
Thanks

 

[tjm73]

A friend of mine has a complete, carb to pan, 70 351C that i can pick up reasonably and it runs quite good, no smoke, etc.
This would be going into my 67 coupe with '72 C4. Any issues with this setup and any input appreciated as far as the cleveland goes.
Thanks

Look for 4V embossed on the cylinder heads. If it's there, you got a good one.

 

[Hack]

I think you should go for it, whether it's a 2V or a 4V. Either way, it would be a nice performer in your car. Tight fit, but plenty of power.

 

[67bluestang]

Its the 4V and was in a jet boat. My friend started it up and ran it for awhile before he bought it and said there was no smoke or any strange noises. He also pulled the pan to check for 4 bolt mains, but its a 2 bolt, and he said its very clean inside. I trust him since i've known him and raced with him for a long time and he's a Ford guy. Even though he has a Camaro with a BBF in it that he races. Think i'll head over later and have a look at it. How's $600 sound?

 

[D.Hearne]

$600 probably isn't a bad price. I just sold an overhauled 2 bbl Cleveland that I picked up out of a guy's front yard for $50 , after I put an additional $400 into it. It had forged TRW's in it, a Comp Cams 280H cam and an Edelbrock F351 intake.

 

[tjm73]

Its the 4V and was in a jet boat. My friend started it up and ran it for awhile before he bought it and said there was no smoke or any strange noises. He also pulled the pan to check for 4 bolt mains, but its a 2 bolt, and he said its very clean inside. I trust him since i've known him and raced with him for a long time and he's a Ford guy. Even though he has a Camaro with a BBF in it that he races. Think i'll head over later and have a look at it. How's $600 sound?

2 bolt mains with the 4V heads is pretty common. If it was in a jet drive boat, you might need to go to a different cam. But then again you might not. Depends on the type of power it makes.

If it was built for a boat by a reputable shop, or someone that knows what they are doing.....it'll be a tough SOB. Boat engines have to be built extra strong to handle the addition stress of being under load 99% of the time. Water puts a huge ammount of stress on an engine. Basically it's in a water brake all the time.

Keep us posted.

 

[Hack]

2 bolt mains with the 4V heads is pretty common.

Hmm, are you sure? The information I have read regarding 351Cs installed in cars is that ALL 4V heads got 4 bolt mains, and many blocks assembled with 2V heads also had 4 bolt mains.

I currently have two 351Cs, both have 2V heads. One of the two blocks just happens to be a 4 bolt main block.

 

[tjm73]

2 bolt mains with the 4V heads is pretty common.

Hmm, are you sure? The information I have read regarding 351Cs installed in cars is that ALL 4V heads got 4 bolt mains, and many blocks assembled with 2V heads also had 4 bolt mains.

I currently have two 351Cs, both have 2V heads. One of the two blocks just happens to be a 4 bolt main block.

That's not uncommon either. Ford did some wierd things back in the day. They probably ran out of 2 bolt blocks, so rather than stop the production line they used the 4 bolt blocks that were ready and waiting. Or mayeb they ran out of 4V heads and used the 2V heads.

 

[nosaj122081]

4 bolt block = 2 bolt block

Exact same block, just the holes for the extra couple main bolts weren't drilled and tapped. You can see where they'd be even, if I recall from my block. The 4 bolt being stronger than the 2 bolt is a Chevy thing; in Clevelands its even a commonly held belief that the 4 bolt setup is weaker due to the extra meat being cut outta the mains for the extra bolts. IMO it doesn't matter one bit, nor would I ever pay more money for the 4 bolt version.

 

[D.Hearne]

I've also seen many 4bbl Clevelands that had 2 bolt blocks. When it comes to what's been published in the reference books, you have to remember that much of the info is correct, but there ARE mistakes in all of them. So they're best used as a loose reference, but not taken at face value. And in addition to that, Ford has been known to "use up" parts on the assembly lines instead of storing them. This includes the old high performance parts too.

 

[Hack]

4 bolt block = 2 bolt block

Exact same block, just the holes for the extra couple main bolts weren't drilled and tapped. You can see where they'd be even, if I recall from my block. The 4 bolt being stronger than the 2 bolt is a Chevy thing; in Clevelands its even a commonly held belief that the 4 bolt setup is weaker due to the extra meat being cut outta the mains for the extra bolts. IMO it doesn't matter one bit, nor would I ever pay more money for the 4 bolt version.

Yes, I've heard the same thing about there being enough material in the 2 bolt blocks to make a 4 bolt. Never heard anyone say they thought a 2 bolt was stronger (until today). They are different castings, however. They aren't identical.

The 4 bolt would strengthen the mains, not the block, wouldn't it? I had always assumed that the extra bolts were for strengthening the mains, not the block. True for any motor?

 

[67bluestang]

Well, i just unloaded the 351C and put it on the stand. The plugs looked good that came out of it. The bearings are ford standard and still look good, just a little bit of specks from dirt. From what i could tell of the cylinders from the bottom they look pretty good. Pulled a few of the rocker arms off and they also looked good, no galling. It seems the motor was taken pretty good care of. I'll probably pull the timing cover and replace the chain and may even replace the bearings. Throw some new seals on it and stuff it the car. Now all i need to figure out is how the alternator mounts. No air or power steering.
Anyone got any pics of the alternator mounting?
Thanks

 

[ratio411]

One thing to look at, you probably already have, is the water jackets in all the parts...
Boats generally cool the engine by flowing the water they are on through it.
This makes for a very quickly wearing engine, from the water jackets out.
If it was ever in salt water, the problem will be even worse.
Marine engines don't use antifreeze or any anticorrosion in the cooling system like cars.
Your engine can look great outside, and even inside the pan, but can be paper thin from the water jackets being abused.
Enough of that...
With the right cam, you will like this engine in your car.
It has the same balance and uses the same external mounting parts as your 302, so it will be a direct bolt in.
Use your 302's flexplate, bellhousing, dampner (if needed), pulleys, engine mounts, etc...
Depending on the oil pan, you might need to track down a front sump pan from a 351/400 in a car application.
In a 67 you will actually have plenty of room for this engine. Swaps don't get tight until 65/66.
Check my info, but I believe that 70 351C headers crossover to 67-69 swaps. 99.85% sure.
Bolt it in and let us know!
Good luck
Dave

 

[D.Hearne]

Also go back and take a closer look at the rocker fulcrums. Are they aluminum ? If they are, run down to your local bone yard and hunt down a set of iron ones from any late 70's 351M, 400, 370 ( truck motor) and I think also a 460. These are much better than the aluminum ones the Clevelands had.

 

[67bluestang]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The boat was in fresh water only and doesn't look too bad under the thermostat housing. The headers i'm looking at are the hookers made for a 67 with 351C. My friend gave me another water pump, block plate, flex plate and couple other odds/ends. The water pump on the motor didn't have the opening for the heater hose. Now i need the adapter's the heater hoses go on and the alternator brackets.

As before, any pictures of alternator mounting out there?

Thanks

 

[D.Hearne]

I believe I have the adjuster bracket for one, but don't have the alt. mount bracket, I've got a couple of 400 ones, but although they look just like the Cleveland bracket, the bolt spacing between the water pump bolts and the pivot bolt are different. It would be really simple to make this bracket from aluminum, it's flat with three holes.

 

[67bluestang]

I've got the adjuster bracket, so maybe i'll dig some of my aluminum plate out and start making one. What about the heater hose fittings for the water pump and block? I'll start digging thru my catalogs and see if anyone has them.
Thanks

 

[Hack]

I have a picture of an alternator bracket, but I have no idea how to post it. I sent you an email.

 

[D.Hearne]

Heater hose fittings can be bought at any local parts house. 4 seasons is one mfg. of them. The one for the block that presses in is also available there.

 

[67bluestang]

Sorry for all the questions. I had most of the stuff figured out on the 302 and now i jump into the 351C and some info is a little harder to come by.
Thanks again.