4-door fun manual daily driver options

[FastDriver]

My old Saturn has been a battle tank. I think it's around 225k miles, now. So, I've put over 150k on it. She's still going strong, but my recent promotion gives me the financial confidence to get something a little more fun as a daily. I may retire the Saturn to backup/loaner status or just sell it outright. Now, here's what I think I'm looking for:
- Price range is definitely sub $30k. Really, I'd like to be into the car for $20k or less, but extra money is acceptable if it's still excellent bang for the buck.
- 4-door that can be adult-y with non-embarrassing amount of room for colleagues & friends
- 6-10 y/o used with reasonable track record for reliability (no common expensive catastrophes like dropping LS7 valves, BMW V10's main bearings, etc...)
- Reasonable fuel economy (high-teens city/mid 20s highway or better)
- RWD or AWD
- Mid-size+
- Manual preferred, reliable auto with paddle-style shifters might be ok
- Fun! The sportier the better.

Cars I've considered to give an idea of where my head's at:
- Scat-pack/SRT8/SRT392 Charger was heavily considered, but is auto only, has cheap-car syndrome with delaminating door panels ($600), uConnect screen delamination issues causing a loss of control of interior accessories, and are in high demand. So, are pretty expensive. Low bang for buck on the used market.
- E60 ('05-'10) BMW M5: love that N/A V10 performance. Great handling car that handles amazingly well and set a 4-door sedan nurburgring nordschleife track record. Decided against because these cars have main bearing problems or vanos pump problems and brick their motors requiring a $25k replacement... ouch! The SMG paddle-shifted gearbox is a no-go, too, but there is an h-pattern 6-spd option.
- 09-13 CTS-V with the 550 hp 6.2 LSA engine. This is still very much in contention. They're fast, reasonably reliable, handle well, nice aftermarket & can be had with a manual. Only trouble is that folks want more than $30k for their 10+ y/o 100k+ mileage Caddies in this market. I'm considering a 1-2 year wait for the Used car market to come back down to earth for one of these cars.
- Porsche Panamera 09-13 Gen 2: awesome performance from their turbo, reasonable reliability from what I gather, similar in performance to the monsters above, but worried about super expensive maintenance, and the damn things are regarded as hideous! Interiors are amazing. Non-turbos can be had in the $20s. Turbos in the $30s. This was a $90k+ car with some really nice amenities and interiors. Not sure it's my style, but seems like a pretty good bang for the buck.
- Mercedes E63 AMG: probably need to read some more on this car. I just know it's the M5's direct competitor.
- '10-15 BMW 335i: I've come to respect the very reliable N55 3.0 turbo engine in these, unlike the M3s. Mileage would be very good @ over 30mpg on the highways. Still runs ~13.2@105-ish in the 1/4. Available in manual, and really nice handling with the M-sport suspension. Currently priced in the low $20s for the nicer ones, and before the pandemic, they were apparently in the mid-teens. I'm tempted here as it's probably the most financially prudent on the list while still adding style, comfort, & reasonable performance. Hell, it's almost as quick as my C5 Corvette was.

Anyways, just wanted to see if this generated any other fun 4-door ideas I haven't considered or real-world experience with these cars. This thread might be a dud in a Mustang forum, but what the hell?

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Buying a Dodge or most German cars is going to be a headache. If you get one with electrical gremlins, you will not be happy and be looking for a cliff.

We bought a Kia Sorento right before prices went sky high on lightly used cars. The seats are not padded the best, and it has been otherwise great. The little gdi goes like a much bigger engine.
We bought a Vibe (matrix) in good shape with plenty of miles for a kid’s car. It seems to also be a winner.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Buying a Dodge or most German cars is going to be a headache. If you get one with electrical gremlins, you will not be happy and be looking for a cliff.

We bought a Kia Sorento right before prices went sky high on lightly used cars. The seats are not padded the best, and it has been otherwise great. The little gdi goes like a much bigger engine.
We bought a Vibe (matrix) in good shape with plenty of miles for a kid’s car. It seems to also be a winner.

The 09 Vibe is smaller than what you are looking for although it seats four fine, (probably bigger than the Saturn), but a Sorento was bigger than what we needed. We liked a Grand Cherokee, but not the price.

 

[COramprat]

I have a 2013 Lincoln MKS with the 3.5L Ecoboost. Think luxury Taurus SHO. I've had it almost 4 years. I bought it with 36k miles and currently has 139k. Drove it 150 miles a day to work until last March when I took retirement leave. It's been a good car although it does have two little gremlins. The manual dash controls are a little quirky. They operate on their own with the AC temp going up by itself. That was the only thing until just recently the radio volume drops to minimum. The fix is $750 if you can find the part. I haven't found one. The other is the power locks engage and disengage while driving. I took it to Lincoln and the tech said he needed to do a thorough trace of wiring because his check should some sensors out. I never had it fixed. That said I've found a few people that said they had the same issues but for the most part the consensus is that it's not widespread. They went away from touch controls in later versions.

That said its surprisingly quick. Ask the few V6 Camaros or Challangers ive come up against. Very nice interior and rides like a dream

 

[Specracer]

I personally would lean toward a manual 3 series BMW (not an M5 with V-10 as tempting as it seems).

One car I noticed not on your list is an Audi S4, pretty sure they came in a manual, in the age range you outlined (B5 and B6's did, I know for sure)

 

[FastDriver]

I have a 2013 Lincoln MKS with the 3.5L Ecoboost. Think luxury Taurus SHO. I've had it almost 4 years. I bought it with 36k miles and currently has 139k. Drove it 150 miles a day to work until last March when I took retirement leave. It's been a good car although it does have two little gremlins. The manual dash controls are a little quirky. They operate on their own with the AC temp going up by itself. That was the only thing until just recently the radio volume drops to minimum. The fix is $750 if you can find the part. I haven't found one. The other is the power locks engage and disengage while driving. I took it to Lincoln and the tech said he needed to do a thorough trace of wiring because his check should some sensors out. I never had it fixed. That said I've found a few people that said they had the same issues but for the most part the consensus is that it's not widespread. They went away from touch controls in later versions.

That said its surprisingly quick. Ask the few V6 Camaros or Challangers ive come up against. Very nice interior and rides like a dream

This is what's happening with Dodge's 8.4" uConnect screen delamination issue. It starts operating the car's amenities on its own. That and the door delamination issue just gives me concerns about how the cheap parts in the rest of the car will age. Could that be what's up with your touch screen?

I personally would lean toward a manual 3 series BMW (not an M5 with V-10 as tempting as it seems).

One car I noticed not on your list is an Audi S4, pretty sure they came in a manual, in the age range you outlined (B5 and B6's did, I know for sure)

I had about 3 days dreaming of the V10 M5 before my passion for it gave way to the reality of that Lamborghini engine maintenance/repair/replacement. Not sure the M3 S65 is that much better, but so long as I stay on top of the rod bearings, bricking that motor is not really a concern. I love the S4. Can't remember why I steered away. Will take another look.

 

[COramprat]

This is what's happening with Dodge's 8.4" uConnect screen delamination issue. It starts operating the car's amenities on its own. That and the door delamination issue just gives me concerns about how the cheap parts in the rest of the car will age. Could that be what's up with your touch screen?

The touch screen is fine. It's the control panel that works in conjunction with the MyFordTouch screen. And I do believe that is a delamination issue as well.

 

[FastDriver]

This market is so brutal it has me leaning towards the lower end of my range. The used market has apparently increased by 42% from DEC19-OCT21. Meanwhile, inflation has increased around 8.5%. That suggests a return to mean would drop a vehicle I purchase now by the difference of 34% on top of regular depreciation while I own the car. My experience suggests commonly produced 10 y/o cars are usually in a depreciation range of 5-10% per year. If I get the worst of it, I can expect to lose 50% in just a couple years. That's an easier pill to swallow on a $10-15k car. God, some of these low mile 10 y/o M3s and CTS-Vs want their original invoice and 70-90% of their newest '22 versions MSRP. This may be a rare period in time when buying new will result in less depreciation over the next 2-3 years.

This makes me wonder if there's room for a return to new old-fashioned pre-computer cars or if any company still makes a non-computerized car of any kind.

 

[FastDriver]

Pretty cool little article that seems to agree with my 10 y/o car philosophy (in normal times). The optimal timing would be prior to the intersection of depreciation with repair costs. This should yield the minimal total costs over a 5 or more year ownership period.

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cars.usnews.com

 

[FastDriver]

This is not a manual, and it may be a little too boaty for my taste, but it might be worth a shot if I can get it for the right price. He's asking $18.5k now. I have no idea what it's worth:

 

[Ronin38]

Is that a Mercury Marauder?

 

[7991LXnSHO]

This is not a manual, and it may be a little too boaty for my taste, but it might be worth a shot if I can get it for the right price. He's asking $18.5k now. I have no idea what it's worth:

My Merc identifies as a Mustang and a tow vehicle. It’s Definetly not floaty as it’s a luxury cop car. But I did not give that much for mine when it was two years old. I’d like that engine.

 

[FastDriver]

Yeah, sorry. '03 Marauder. So, at least it comes with a stiffer suspension and better brakes.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Yeah, sorry. '03 Marauder. So, at least it comes with a stiffer suspension and better brakes.

Am actual Maurader changes the price.

 

[Ronin38]

I recall those Marauders were nice cars. I think they were Ford/Merc. answer to the Impala SS?

 

[FastDriver]

Honestly, I couldn't possibly be tempted by a stock 15.2-15.3@93mph in the 1/4 mile Marauder. However, I've seen this dyno of the trilogy kit putting down 440 rwhp on a dyno. So, yeah... Now, we're talkin'. That's a ~200rwhp bump. However, that is such a bump that the rule of thumb of 1 tenth and 1mph per 10hp may not apply, but if it did, it would mean a ~113mph trap speed. If so, that would make it run harder than a Charger SRT, and that would be pretty cool. I also think a Marauder is a bit more special than a Pontiac G8, which I have also found in the 450 rwhp range for the same price. I think I like the G8's interior more, though.

And... If it really is a "built" forged terminator shortblock, then the motor is capable of a LOT more than the blower is. That blower is the equivalent of the Eaton M112 that came stock in the Lightnings, Harleys, and Cobras. I think ported stock blowers in Cobras were doing ~500 rwhp. So, my guess is that pullies would only get me to the 450-500 range. That makes me skeptical that anyone would go to the trouble of building a Cobra short block.

 

[FastDriver]

Got some engine docs on the car. Here are my take-aways:

Parts and labor = ~$12k. This doesn't count the blower kit. I consider Eagle and Diamond good forged parts. Work was done in 2014 at ~59k miles. It's around 99k miles, now; should have plenty of life left. 1 5/8 Headers seem a little undersized for a motor like this. 10.25:1 Compression ratio is pretty high for a forced induction car, IMO, and should make pretty good power, though I'd be boost and detonation limited on pump gas. 60lbs injectors, and my 10:1 rule of thumb says that they're not being very taxed at the power the blower's good for. Aeromotive 340LPH (I guess?) pump should be plenty.

Now comes the hard part. How to I price this one-off kind of car? It's in essence a 100k mile Marauder with some very nice modifications. I have no idea what the market for this car looks like. How big is the Marauder following?




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[Mustang5L5]

I have a 2013 Lincoln MKS with the 3.5L Ecoboost. Think luxury Taurus SHO. I've had it almost 4 years. I bought it with 36k miles and currently has 139k.

Still on the original water pump? If not, you might want to proactively replace that along with the timing chains. I've got a Taurus and the 3.5L's internal water pump is the one thing that keeps me awake at night...

 

[FastDriver]

Marauder has a buyer at 18.5k he said. I think I'm gonna hang it up for a while. There are some pretty good reasons to believe we're at or beyond the peak of the market, and I have plenty of cars. So, I'll pick this thread back up when it feels like things are getting back to normal.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

With what the chip shortage has done to used car prices, you are making a wise decision. If it’s not an emergency the market could have popped by next year. I would have been horrified at our recent shopping adventure for a school car if not for a fair market value pay off of the squashed, dead Bug.