4-link, 3-link or leaf?

65FBE2 · Jan 15, 2011

I am in the process of putting the motor back into my 65 FB and plan on updating the rear suspension at the same time. Just that I have no experience with the rear so I'm looking for advice. The car has 465hp 347 with a T5z 5 speed. The front suspension is a RRS strut set up. The car will be used for open track road racing. I currently have Maier racing 165 race rear leafs with Koni shocks.
I have been looking at all the systems out there and I just get more confused. I am beginning to think I could do just fine with the leafs I have and just add a Fays2 watts link and upgrade to double adjustable shocks. What do you guys think? I will spend what I need to but don't want to waist money either.

Bullitt · Jan 16, 2011

You need to think first about what you're trying to accomplish and to what extent you want to modify the car...

You've mentioned "open track road racing"... Do you mean "open road" racing like the Silver State races or "road racing" on a closed-circuit track? Also, do you really mean "racing" or "open lapping"?

Big difference between some of those options... For instance true racing you might have rules limits to stay within. Open lapping you still might want the car fairly streetable...

So, focus on what you're planning to do first.

My opinion is to get your Watts link installed on see how you like it. If it's still not good enough for you, you can look into the other options. With a 3 link you'd need to retain the Watts (or a PHB) anyways. I think the 3-link is the best option, but to really realize all the benefits, you'll have to cut the body to fit in the proper upper link...

gregski · Jan 16, 2011

65FBE2 said:
The car has 465hp 347 with a T5z 5 speed.

I'm sorry I started drooling and day dreaming after I read that, friggen AWESOME stroker / stick setup !!!

Seriously though, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but could someone post a picture of a 4-link vs a 3-link setup specific to a first gen Mustang pretty please.

HDTony · Jan 16, 2011

I am in the middle of building the same motor, trans, ford 9" setup.

looking for upgrade ideas as well. my concern is eliminating wheel hop.

65FBE2 · Jan 16, 2011

Well I guess I don't know the proper name for what I am trying to do. I do not want to get into fender to fender racing and I already have way to many mods to qualiify for true vintage racing. We have a 2.5 mile road course up here and 6-8 dates a year that we can just pay the track fee after some schooling go out and run. I do drive the car some on the street but this is very limited. I will say that the Maier leafs I have do work well and I think going with a Fays2 watts link may be all I need to make a decent handling car. Have to redo all the exhaust if I go that way though.

65FBE2 · Jan 16, 2011

HDTony said:
I am in the middle of building the same motor, trans, ford 9" setup.

looking for upgrade ideas as well. my concern is eliminating wheel hop.

If wheel hop is your main concern, I can tell you that these Maier leaf springs will not wheel hop. They are made by stacking 2 extra 1/2 leafs that are extra long to the front half of the spring then clamping them in place with heavy duty clamps and a poly front bushing. They cost more but get rid of the need for traction bars and the binding that can go along with them.

HDTony · Jan 16, 2011

65FBE2 said:
If wheel hop is your main concern, I can tell you that these Maier leaf springs will not wheel hop. They are made by stacking 2 extra 1/2 leafs that are extra long to the front half of the spring then clamping them in place with heavy duty clamps and a poly front bushing. They cost more but get rid of the need for traction bars and the binding that can go along with them.

well if you decide to redo your suspension, let me know. I may take those off your hands.

j69302 · Jan 16, 2011

I can vouch for the Maier leaf springs eliminating wheel hop... I had some horrid wheel hop with the stock springs, put some maier 165 mid eyes on them and absolutely zero wheel hop.

rbohm · Jan 16, 2011

here is an idea to ponder. rather than install the watts link, how about using a torque arm suspension with the leaf springs? you will need a floating axle housing mount, you can get it from summit racing. you want the bolt in kind, and let the leaf springs just control the side to side movement of the axle, and suspend the rear suspension. then use a torque arm to control wheel hop. this is probably the least expensive set up you can come up with, and one idea i am pondering for my 66 coupe.

65FBE2 · Jan 16, 2011

I have thought about doing just that, except I think the watts link is still needed. Spring wrap up is not a problem with the springs I have. The main weak point of the leaf is the lateral movement under hard side load occasions. Then you don't need to have a free floating rear. I thought about just buying the Griggs torque arm. Maybe I will just make my own torque arm. Otherwise, buy the time you buy the arm and watts link, you might as well get a TCP or Heidts 4 link system. I am going to make a few calls in the morning and see what Fays2 and Maier say

rbohm · Jan 17, 2011

65FBE2 said:
I have thought about doing just that, except I think the watts link is still needed. Spring wrap up is not a problem with the springs I have. The main weak point of the leaf is the lateral movement under hard side load occasions. Then you don't need to have a free floating rear. I thought about just buying the Griggs torque arm. Maybe I will just make my own torque arm. Otherwise, buy the time you buy the arm and watts link, you might as well get a TCP or Heidts 4 link system. I am going to make a few calls in the morning and see what Fays2 and Maier say

if you are going to use a torque arm with the leaf springs, you need to float the housing, otherwise you will have suspension binding and spring wrap in a bad way. the leaf springs do a nice job of locating the axle in the side to side plane anyway. you really only need a panhard bar or watts link with a three or four link suspension where there is more side to side movement.

mdjay · Jan 17, 2011

I agree on the maier springs as long as you use a shock that can keep up with the linear increasing spring rate...

65FBE2 · Jan 17, 2011

mdjay said:
I agree on the maier springs as long as you use a shock that can keep up with the linear increasing spring rate...

I got the springs from you and I have been happy with them. What shock would you suggest?

I also see that TCP offers a torque link for leaf springs. They don't say anything about making the rear full floater? When I look at how a Torque link would work, I don't see how its any different than traction masters. Except you can ajust pinion angle and as long as you have the dog bone type link at the cross member so the arc of the leaf doesn't compete with the torque link

mdjay · Jan 18, 2011

Thank you and I remember your build...

The bilsteins are the only shock the is specifically tuned for the Maier springs. It's not that others can't, but re-valving could be in order.

Maier worked directly with Bilstein to tune them around his spring rate.

I had maier's adj panhard with their leafs and it works well together before we did the push rod susp article.
http://www.mustangdepot.com/graphics/TCP-RearCO.pdf

We generally don't recommend the pushrod setup for the street due to limited travel. The gbar is more street oriented.

Leafs are still a good way to go though. Nothing wrong with them, just the lateral issue previously mentioned.

Still the same old story, 3 link if you want to do corners, 4 link if you want to point it straight.

mdjay · Jan 18, 2011

rbohm said:
if you are going to use a torque arm with the leaf springs, you need to float the housing, otherwise you will have suspension binding and spring wrap in a bad way.

I agree

Federico Garza · Jan 19, 2011

Care to elaborate on the floating housing???

Ive been looking high and low for tech on torque arm with leaf springs and couldnt find any...

I previously made a torque arm for my fox body , and have it sitting on the shelf, id like to use it on my 64.5 coupe

65FBE2 · Jan 19, 2011

After speaking with Bill Maier and Jim Fay among a few others, I have decided to go with the leafs I have, change rear shocks to the Bilstein's and add the Fays2 watts link. It would be the common consensus that the Maier leafs will be fine with out a torque link for anything short of all out drag racing and the watts link will give the roll center adjustability to dial the car in for what I want to use it for. The coil over systems will not get me much beyond this as far as handling is concerned. They may have a better or softer ride on the street though. This way I can save a few bucks and use it to get the rear exhaust modified to go around the watts link.

rbohm · Jan 19, 2011

Federico Garza said:
Care to elaborate on the floating housing???

Ive been looking high and low for tech on torque arm with leaf springs and couldnt find any...

I previously made a torque arm for my fox body , and have it sitting on the shelf, id like to use it on my 64.5 coupe

watch this video. while it deals with ladder bars and leaf springs, the concept is the same with a torque arm and leaf springs.

Episode Details | Official Website of Stacey David and Gearz TV

phutch11 · Jan 19, 2011

You might consider some fiberglass leafs.

I don't have any first hand experience with the but they are supposedly a great way to shed lots of unsprung weight. Several guys at corner carvers run them.

Good luck...

5280/4 · Feb 7, 2011

I vote 3-link If you plan on all out performance. I built my own 3-link for my falcon and watts link.

4-link, 3-link or leaf?

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