429, good or bad idea??

GTOreturns · Oct 5, 2006

you cut me to the quick! Im a huge BB fan! But not in a fox. Too say that they are cheap to build makes me question your knowledge on the subject!

ExplodingGopher · Oct 5, 2006

Really.......

lol you're new on here, when i brought this up in 2004, i had soo much crap about it not being streetable, being TOO EXPENSIVE, too heavy, etc. I set out to prove everyone wrong, and i did. The swap cost me $6500 for everything, thats building the motor from the ground up, building the tranny, misc things like fuel cell, subframe ties, interior goodies. D0VE heads properly equipped can support 700-800 hp and be had for about $1200 for a pair. Not to mention a hand made side exit exhaust in mandrel bent 3" tubing. Small blocks are great for some applications, but you get more bang for the buck with a big block provided you dont go autocrossing.

a big block in a small light car............god what was i thinking lolololololol

Dont even get me started on Chevy big blocks..... read this is you like BBC over BBF, the BBC is really laughable :

http://home.earthlink.net/~kaneofthenation/highflowdynamics/id15.html

GTOReturns said:
Not too mention its a 1000X easier to install a SC then it is to shoe horn a 460 into a fox body!!

Sorry, i'd rather be different than every other fox running around with a blower, and theres not shoehorning, it fits fine with plenty of clearance to get at the plugs.

GTOReturns said:
Why bother. The extra money its gonna cost you to build a BB Ford (BB Ford's are one of the most expensive motors to build for H.O.) could easily used to put a super charger on your mild to stock 302 and will be just as if not FASTER then the BB and will handle better because it will "still" be lighter then having that huge BB between the fenders!!

This quote just kills me, lol, hope that stock 302 block will hold up

As for 429/460 holding up to power:

From 460ford.com

----------Erica Ortiz ran a 6.88 at 205 mph with stock 460 b----------

-4 bolt mains and filled.She also said it has a cast crank, super cobra jet heads and was 498 cubic inches.I thought it was pretty imressive and wanted to share with every one.I found this on www.funfordevents.com on the Pro 5.0 or Pro forum.She was driving a 87 or 88 T-Bird in Pro 5.0.

-Not sure on the HP. I would gues 1500 -1600 HP. When I talked to them, they told me that they were running a 3.55 rear gear because they didn't want to turn over 7000 rpm with the stock block. I can only imagine the pressure from dual turbos at 7000 rpm!!!! They told me this was a motor for Erica to get use to the car & they are building an all out motor this winter if I'm not mistaken.

This post is from Erica:

Hi guys!

Yep, its a stock 4 bolt block that's filled, with a cast crank. When we first took it out, we dyno'd a 1380 RWHP with only about 20 psi of boost. I shift at 7400 RPM and we make about 25-27 psi of boost now. We're pretty concerned about the crankshaft breaking, so we haven't pushed it too hard. After that 6.88 @ 205 pass, we've decided to pull the motor and Mr. Moody is installing a forged crank to last until the end of the season. I have already gathered an aluminum block, but still have to obtain the rotating assembly and a set of castings of a little bit more aggressive head combination, but hopefully we'll be able to start 07 with a competitive engine program. In the mean time, I'm tickled with how well we've done with this one!

z2o_what · Oct 5, 2006

GTOReturns said:
Yeah but theres not too many aftermarket go fast goodies for the 500 ci Cadzilla motor.Not that youd need to much more. But Im SURE that would be a first in a Fox body!!Can you say Fabrication!!

one of my friends has one we're going to atempt putting in a 80s camaro.

seeing as how the motor came out of a '71 fwd elderodo, motor mounts are going to be a b*tch...

STANGateURlilSS · Oct 6, 2006

i do not experiance with putting one in a fox.. woudl make for a great car.. i mean unless u want to go autocrossing or road racing.. the swap is pretty straight forward..

i have had alot of experiance putting bbf into early mustangs.. 67-70 mustangs.. a friend and i just finished putting in a 466 .03 overbore 460 in his 67 cougar.. which was previously a sbf car.. the hp level is just a tad higher.. but the torque increase is insane..

the sbf was built..

the bbf stock heads..

there is no replacement for displacement!!

for info on the 460.. there is only one place to go... 460ford.com many many guys there have made the fox 460 swap... and they would be more then happy to help u with any possible question u have about putting a 460 in a fox

GTOreturns · Oct 6, 2006

ExplodingGopher said:
Really.......

lol you're new on here, when i brought this up in 2004, i had soo much crap about it not being streetable, being TOO EXPENSIVE, too heavy, etc. I set out to prove everyone wrong, and i did. The swap cost me $6500 for everything, thats building the motor from the ground up, building the tranny, misc things like fuel cell, subframe ties, interior goodies. D0VE heads properly equipped can support 700-800 hp and be had for about $1200 for a pair. Not to mention a hand made side exit exhaust in mandrel bent 3" tubing. Small blocks are great for some applications, but you get more bang for the buck with a big block provided you dont go autocrossing.

a big block in a small light car............god what was i thinking lolololololol

Dont even get me started on Chevy big blocks..... read this is you like BBC over BBF, the BBC is really laughable :

http://home.earthlink.net/~kaneofthenation/highflowdynamics/id15.html

Sorry, i'd rather be different than every other fox running around with a blower, and theres not shoehorning, it fits fine with plenty of clearance to get at the plugs.

This quote just kills me, lol, hope that stock 302 block will hold up

As for 429/460 holding up to power:

From 460ford.com

----------Erica Ortiz ran a 6.88 at 205 mph with stock 460 b----------

-4 bolt mains and filled.She also said it has a cast crank, super cobra jet heads and was 498 cubic inches.I thought it was pretty imressive and wanted to share with every one.I found this on www.funfordevents.com on the Pro 5.0 or Pro forum.She was driving a 87 or 88 T-Bird in Pro 5.0.

-Not sure on the HP. I would gues 1500 -1600 HP. When I talked to them, they told me that they were running a 3.55 rear gear because they didn't want to turn over 7000 rpm with the stock block. I can only imagine the pressure from dual turbos at 7000 rpm!!!! They told me this was a motor for Erica to get use to the car & they are building an all out motor this winter if I'm not mistaken.

This post is from Erica:

Hi guys!

Yep, its a stock 4 bolt block that's filled, with a cast crank. When we first took it out, we dyno'd a 1380 RWHP with only about 20 psi of boost. I shift at 7400 RPM and we make about 25-27 psi of boost now. We're pretty concerned about the crankshaft breaking, so we haven't pushed it too hard. After that 6.88 @ 205 pass, we've decided to pull the motor and Mr. Moody is installing a forged crank to last until the end of the season. I have already gathered an aluminum block, but still have to obtain the rotating assembly and a set of castings of a little bit more aggressive head combination, but hopefully we'll be able to start 07 with a competitive engine program. In the mean time, I'm tickled with how well we've done with this one!

LOL,,,yeah great, it can support 7-800HP. Is that what you have ? Is that what you built for 6500 bucks? Maybe you can be a little more detailed as to how much you actually built your motor. Was the blocked cleaned,boiled and bored? New connectong rods with pistons/rings and such? did you get a brand new cam with lifters?/chain/gears? what about bearings? rod/cam. Did you acyually build it from the ground up using all "brand new" parts? or was it a junk yard motor that you refreshed and slapped a set of heads on?

#2-Your comparing a BB chevy "car" motor to a BB Ford "Truck" motor!! The truth of the matter is Ford never put anything in one of its street production cars that could match the power of a 427 chevy!!

FORCED2DV8 · Oct 6, 2006

GTOReturns said:
LOL,,,yeah great, it can support 7-800HP. Is that what you have ? Is that what you built for 6500 bucks? Maybe you can be a little more detailed as to how much you actually built your motor. Was the blocked cleaned,boiled and bored? New connectong rods with pistons/rings and such? did you get a brand new cam with lifters?/chain/gears? what about bearings? rod/cam. Did you acyually build it from the ground up using all "brand new" parts? or was it a junk yard motor that you refreshed and slapped a set of heads on?

#2-Your comparing a BB chevy "car" motor to a BB Ford "Truck" motor!! The truth of the matter is Ford never put anything in one of its street production cars that could match the power of a 427 chevy!!

MMMMMM, I think your on the wrong site... Shouldnt you be on the chevy site. Or show us a pic of your stang with your 427 chevy in it..

GTOreturns · Oct 6, 2006

FORCED2DV8 said:
MMMMMM, I think your on the wrong site... Shouldnt you be on the chevy site. Or show us a pic of your stang with your 427 chevy in it..

Nope, a proud owner a 5.0. It was in reference to his comparison.

MYSTICSVT · Oct 6, 2006

GTOReturns said:
Your comparing a BB chevy "car" motor to a BB Ford "Truck" motor!! The truth of the matter is Ford never put anything in one of its street production cars that could match the power of a 427 chevy!!

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe the only difference between the passenger car 460 and the truck 460 is the connecting rods. Everything else is the same. And even then some of the 429's, like the 429 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet(which are more than a match for GM's 427), had those rods as well.

rd · Oct 6, 2006

What is all the fuss here?

The 429/460 swap is fairly common. It was a big street swap in the early 80's, then faded.

Now, it is a fairly common bracket race combo, for the same reasons a bbc is used, motherloads of power and torque at low engine loading. They will run consistent 10's and such much easier than a small block.

As for handling and corners, who cares? I have had stuff from Volvos to z cars and trucks, and really don't see the point of handling for public roads. It only gets you dents in the side of the car when you find the limits of traction. Been there, done that. My lifted F150 4x4 handles as well as any car I have ever owned as far as street driving goes. I am a bit jaded in this area, but I tried corners on motorcycles at a young age and decided that the gods of straght line acceleration were much more tolerant of excess.

Big power, now thats worth something.

GTOreturns · Oct 6, 2006

MYSTICSVT said:
Correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe the only difference between the passenger car 460 and the truck 460 is the connecting rods. Everything else is the same. And even then some of the 429's, like the 429 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet(which are more than a match for GM's 427), had those rods as well.

Guys dont get me wrong, I love the 460. In fact in high school a kid had a 1979 F-250 with a 460 his father built,it was the 2nd fastest car in the school.(a 69 Nova SS w/396 was 1st) watching that truck do a hole shot made the prettiest sound you ever heard!!

But some guys just keep bringing up bad stuff. To compare a factory Cobra Jet to a 427 chevy is just rediculous.. A 1967-69 427 L-88 made 560HP.It was grossly underated for insurance purposes at 435HP. What did the CJ make?

Modular2v · Oct 6, 2006

GTOReturns said:
LOL,,,yeah great, it can support 7-800HP. Is that what you have ? Is that what you built for 6500 bucks? Maybe you can be a little more detailed as to how much you actually built your motor. Was the blocked cleaned,boiled and bored? New connectong rods with pistons/rings and such? did you get a brand new cam with lifters?/chain/gears? what about bearings? rod/cam. Did you acyually build it from the ground up using all "brand new" parts? or was it a junk yard motor that you refreshed and slapped a set of heads on?

#2-Your comparing a BB chevy "car" motor to a BB Ford "Truck" motor!! The truth of the matter is Ford never put anything in one of its street production cars that could match the power of a 427 chevy!!

wow. . . and you talk about lack of knowledge? Ford didnt have to put a bb in their "production" cars to match the power of a 427 chevy. And i would take a 427FE motor, or any FE motor anyday of the week over any chevy bb

MYSTICSVT · Oct 6, 2006

GTOReturns said:
To compare a factory Cobra Jet to a 427 chevy is just rediculous.. A 1967-69 427 L-88 made 560HP.It was grossly underated for insurance purposes at 435HP. What did the CJ make?

All of the manufacturers underated their powerplants for insurance reasons back then. 429 SJC heads flow every bit as good, or better than, any Chevrolet head of that era. So I'm sure the HP was very similar. I severely doubt the 560 HP claim. Any proof?

Woodrow · Oct 6, 2006

GTOReturns said:
Yeah but theres not too many aftermarket go fast goodies for the 500 ci Cadzilla motor.Not that youd need to much more. But Im SURE that would be a first in a Fox body!!Can you say Fabrication!!

Its already been done....

Stock bottom-end junkyard cadillac 500, 3.08 gear, shifting at 5600rpm, lunati cam, ported stock heads.

motor
1.61- 60', 7.33 @ 95.01 1/8th', and 11.46 @ 118.85
1.63- 60', 7.33 @ 94.63 1/8th', and 11.47 @ 118.54

250shot nitrous
1.46- 60', 6.38 @ 109.33 1/8th', and 9.97 @ 136.82
1.40- 60', 6.37 @ 108.8 1/8th', and 10.00 @ 135.20.
It started off with him picking up a 30 year old caddy 500 from a junkyard. Pulled the heads, did a home port job, stock valvetrain, threw in a custom gound Lunati cam, cut the flanges of the stock manifolds and welded them to a set of BBC blockhuggers. 2 stage 250shot. edelbrock performer style maifold, subframes, personally made roll cage. I can't remember the carb but i think it's an 850 double pumper. Welded his own mounts for it and found out a real easy way to mount up the th400 using just a peice of exhaust tubing.

View attachment 435438

Oh and btw you are a tool...

Mustang_Punk · Oct 6, 2006

sbftech said:
No its not mine, as far as efi is concerned, theres nothing out there for that.

Yes there is, 460 came with FI and a 460=429

MYSTICSVT · Oct 6, 2006

Mustang_Punk said:
Yes there is, 460 came with FI and a 460=429

Unfortunately the factory Ford fuel injection only fits 1988 and newer cylinder heads.

Mustang_Punk · Oct 6, 2006

MYSTICSVT said:
Unfortunately the factory Ford fuel injection only fits 1988 and newer cylinder heads.

Couldn't you just drill holes in the intake for the injectors?

Ive seen cars in MM&FF using edelbrock carb intakes with a elbow for the induction piping and holes drilled for the injectors

GTOreturns · Oct 6, 2006

Woodrow said:
Its already been done....

View attachment 435418

Oh and btw you are a tool...

I wasnt aware of a cadilac powered 5.0,that makes me a tool? whatever!

Dark Knight · Oct 6, 2006

This thread is funny..
Anyone see who one the BB engine masters challenge? Oh yeah, it was a 460 ford.. The chevy 427 was badass in it's time, but an '03-'04 cobra is quicker and faster... and why not compare the boss 429 to the ZL-1? Both were limited production...

BTW, a properly built engine doenst know what it came out of.. car, truck or motorhome..

GTOreturns · Oct 6, 2006

Dark Knight said:
This thread is funny..
Anyone see who one the BB engine masters challenge? Oh yeah, it was a 460 ford.. The chevy 427 was badass in it's time, but an '03-'04 cobra is quicker and faster... and why not compare the boss 429 to the ZL-1? Both were limited production...

BTW, a properly built engine doenst know what it came out of.. car, truck or motorhome..

In its time? OK, lose the sc on the cobra then watcha got? A ZL-1 will smoke any production Mustang.

Woodrow · Oct 6, 2006

GTOReturns said:
I wasnt aware of a cadilac powered 5.0,that makes me a tool? whatever!

I see you got lost, go back over there were the only thing more powerful than the ls1 is ignorance.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/

Your a tool or troll (I'll let you pick) for coming on here and trying to start ****, about fords on a ford forum.

And btw, who races "production" cars besides magazines and bench ricers...

429, good or bad idea??

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