65-66 Manual Trans Brake Boosters

[mdjay]

I decided to start a new thread on the subject.

The issue was using a brake booster with a manual trans car and also with the JMC Hydraulic Clutch swaps.

Here's the difference between the boosters.

I am going to swap the brackets and modify the pushrod to use the chrome one. These manual boosters are not currently offered in chrome.

 

[steel1212]

Jay, are you useing a duel master cylinder and a brake buster on a manuea? I didn't think you could do that?

 

[mdjay]

No, I going to switch back to the single dual bowl master and use the manual booster above's brackets and pushrod to run it with my hydraulic clutch set-up.

Then I need to run a vacuum booster to kick up the lbs.

If I never originally had the booster, it may have been different. But I had the booster set-up originally and it stopped incredibly fast.

The JMC dual master set-up with the bias bar is a little too tough to push down with a car this fast. I need the same response to slow her down!

 

[66Runt]

Did you have to "modify" your shock tower?

I just dry fitted that same booster w dual reservoir MC and found it hits the shock tower on my '66 convertible. I also found that once in place I would not be able to remove the reservoir cover, as the shock tower brace bracket will be in the way.

I'm planning on doing a little work to the shock tower, remove the stock braces and install an export brace. This should allow the whole thing to fit correctly, and be serviceable.

Just wondering if you found the same thing?

Scott

 

[Edbert]

That's a nice setup, looks well made from the photo. But since I have an automatic transmission can someone explain the problem this part fixes?

 

[mdjay]

On 65-66 cars the clutch linkage is in the way of the power brake boosters so you can't use them. You are forced to go manual brakes. These are suppose to remedy the situation.

 

[66Runt]

Install of this booster in a '66 MT convertible

I thought I'd just go ahead and post a few shots of my install, since Jay wasn't able to answer my questions.

Again, this is in a manual transmission '66 convertible. Coupes and Fastbacks may not be the same. In fact your '66 manual transmission convertible may not be the same

I had to remove the stock shock tower braces, and the brackets that are spot welded on. You can see from the pictures that no way in hell was this going to fit with the stock setup. Also if you look close in the picture from above with the export brace that I had to put an indentation in the shock tower that is about 1/4" deep.

The kit lines are too short to make a horizontal loop, and the supplied pushrod seal for the firewall is for a standard round push rod, not the flat bar. I'm using the kit lines for now, but will replace all the lines when I strip the car for repaint.
I also picked up the correct pushrod seal, as eventually the supplied one will rip.

I'm also not confident the brake pedal brake light switch will work correctly, as there is very little play at the clevis. That is easily fixed though.

In order to get the proper angle for the pushrod, I have the booster installed as low as it can go. Which also helps clearance for the reservoir cover.
Clutch linkage has plenty of room.

I'm using an adjustable proportioning valve from Summit, nice quality and inexpensive.

Still have to install the front brakes ('04 13" Cobra brake kit) then bleed the whole system, to see how it's going to work. Lines are a little on the small side, so I am expecting not much better than a late model stock vehicle response. That will change when the whole shooting match gets replumbed.

All in all an easy install. It's going to be a while before I'll be on the road, probably about 6 weeks. Still have to order the wheels & tires.

Scott

 

[66Runt]

Here it is plumbed up

Couldn't attach the pictures with the export brace, they are too big. But basically add about 1/2" more clearance and better access to fill the rear brake reservoir (closest to front of car).

 

[jmenke]

MDJAY,
when you get this hooked up with the vacuum pump added, post a reply on how well this small booster works compared to your experiences with non-boosted and original FORD booster.
I would like to improve my car's stopping potential.
I just added carbon kevlar pads this weekend. They helped some, but there is still room for improvement.
Glad to see that there is a booster on the market now that works with manual 1st generation stangs.

Jim

 

[mdjay]

I thought I'd just go ahead and post a few shots of my install, since Jay wasn't able to answer my questions.

You know, I missed the question on my read. There wouldn't be any difference between yours and other 65-66 cars in that area. I haven't begun the install as of yet, so I don't have all the answers as of yet.

 

[66Runt]

That's OK

I answered them for myself. Figured I'd post in case any one else might be interested.
For a "purist" there may be an issue of removing the stock shock tower brackets, and clearancing the shock tower (unless you knew it wasn't "clearanced" from the factory you'd never even notice it).
Otherwise, it was a pretty nice install.

There is going to have to be a little more play in the hole at the end of the push bar. There isn't enough play to activate the brake light switch. I could probably get away with just removing the red bushing, but don't want to hear that metal on metal chatter. Shouldn't take more than a minute with a die grinder. This is only necessary if you have the mechanical switch. If you have a pressure switch, the fit onto the clevis pin is really nice. Elongating the hole front to rear about 1/16" should be enough, and would be easier and neater to do while on the bench.

Good luck with your install. I would suggest getting some stub lines long enough to make at least 1 horizontal loop on each line, this will take the stress of the steel lines from movement and vibration.

Scott

 

[PM 65]

Couldn't attach the pictures with the export brace, they are too big. But basically add about 1/2" more clearance and better access to fill the rear brake reservoir (closest to front of car).

Mmmh, read your thread and im not sure if i understand this right... you mean the rear brake reservoir is that one which i marked on the Picture? (sorry, my english is not the best)

Thanks for the help Mario

 

[Edbert]

Yes, the reservior for the rear circuit is usually at the front of the master cylinder, on most cars and classic mustangs.

If you are mixing non OEM parts, then whichever one holds less fluid is for the rear brakes.

 

[dennis112]

Holy Resurrection!!!!!

MDJAY and 66Runt (and etc.) Have you made any progress toward completing this swap (with the manual tranny.)

I would also like to know the amount of clearance that remains between the valve cover and the brake booster. Pic would be cool.

 

[PM 65]

Thanks, for the answers... my reservoir are both same size... just some theoretically thinking... when both reservoirs are same size even than one is for rear and one is for front.. to explain what i mean... you could NOT switch it like you would... is that right? Because one of the reservoir has more power than the other... is that right?

greetz Mario

 

[jmenke]

I have successfully installed this kit on my 66 convertible with 5.0L EFI and Wilwood Hydraulic clutch. Note that I am no longer running the stock convertible shock tower braces. I had to use a Maier Racing brace with export brace integrated with it to clear the EFI intake.
Works great even at about 12 psig vacuum at idle.
I have about 1/4" clearance between the shock tower and master, even with an additional plate I welded in behind the brake and clutch master cylinders to beef up the firewall. The booster does hit my clutch master and is actually pushing it down some, but everything is working. I will address this if I ever pull the engine. It is very cramped and there is noway I want to tackle this unless a real problem arises. My setup is for 4 wheel discs, so the master cylinder could be a bit shorter than other kits. A friend of mine just ordered this kit and he got a mastercylinder that is aluminum with a plastic bowl. Looks cheap. The mfg indicated that they had fitment issues and changed the masters. I assume that this fitment issue deals with the original Mustang shock tower braces, but who knows...
I don't have any pictures to post. Could get some if someone really needs them.

 

[Rusty67]

I havn't read the other thread so I'll provably be repeating what has already been said.

If you guys want a good upgrade that are Ford parts, check into an 84-86 SVO master cylinder. It has a 1 1/8 inch cylinder bore and a HUGE resivoir for fluid. No residual pressure valves are built into this MC so if you use it and have drums you have to put a residual pressure valve in each circuit there are drum brakes. The only other gotcha with this MC is that the ports exit to the passenger side instead of the drivers side.

As for a booster, I'm not sure on the years, but the 2.3L Fox body Mustangs had a significantly thiner booster then the stock booster or the later v8 boosters. I havn't put the booster in my car because I'm sticking with manual brakes until I feel I really need it, however I've heard a lot of people saying the fox booster works great.

I may convert to power soon because I'm going to be converting to rear disc and I'm not sure if I'm going to need the extra juice or not. When I'm done with the conversion I'll post it with a price list and details.

 

[66Runt]

>1' clearance on a 6 cylinder

Holy Resurrection!!!!!

MDJAY and 66Runt (and etc.) Have you made any progress toward completing this swap (with the manual tranny.)

I would also like to know the amount of clearance that remains between the valve cover and the brake booster. Pic would be cool.

Not sure on a V8. I'm getting all this stuff done while the 6 banger is in there, so I don't have to fight around an asphalt ripping, rubber stripping, hunk-a-hunk-a burning V8.

Fit's very nicely with the stock clutch linkage though.

Scott

 

[mdjay]

I haven't touched it...

I decided to hydro boost

Scott Drake is expected to have a hydro set-up soon. If it takes too long, I run another one down....

 

[dennis112]

MDJAY and 66Runt: Thanks for getting back to me. Keep us updated on the progress of both your projects.