6k to spend on heads and cams

DUKE · Jun 17, 2005

I have a 2000GT with all the bolt ons including BBK LT headers. I have about 6K to spend and was thinking about new heads and cams to go with them. I was thinking about MPH stage 2 heads and the stage 2 cams. I would like to get around 400BHP if this is possible. I also have 4.10 gears, so a supercharger is out of the question. My car is my summer daily driver and I don't take it to the track but would like to start to. Thanks for any advice.

Thanks

300bhp/ton · Jun 17, 2005

don't see why a blower is out of the question.

With a twin screw the 4.10's may be a little over kill but you could always change them if needed.

OR

Look at a centrifugal blower, there are several out there and they will be better suited to the 4.10's as the power won't come in until a bit higher in the rpms. With that sort of money you could get a good kit and some nice cams, probably wouldn’t worry about the heads unless you are going racing. You should be able to see the other side 400rwhp easy and still be running a safe tune on 91-93 octane fuel. It would also be sensible to upgrade the brakes and suspension to match the power, mind.

If you go the n/a route you could easily spend most or all of that budget and still struggle to produce more power than a simple Eaton Roots blower kit from Ford racing.

If you want n/a and a big BHP road car maybe look at LS1/2 powered car or if you have the dosh a late 90’s Viper, they will all produce some very impressive numbers without the need for FI.

With the Stang the only sensible option is a supercharger (or turbo but it’ll cost a lot more to make the best of it).

SLOW 97 · Jun 17, 2005

Yeah, I'm also not quite sure why your 4.10's equal no blower. Is it really that big of deal to put some 3.55's or 3.73's in? Actually screw it 4.10's+blower=good times. You'd just need some big slicks and suspension. Anyway, all bs aside, I'm saving my coins for the Patriot Performance Stage 3 CNC heads. They are a very good value and flow very well. They are only $1495 for the pair fully assembled w/ big stainless valves and hi lift springs. A blower is by far the most cost effective way to make power with a 2 valve. Also, it will be very diffucult to make 400hp even at the flywheel with an NA 2V. Im pretty sure nobody with stock displacement has has done it. You'd definitely need a stroker kit.

white96blown2v · Jun 17, 2005

If you can get 400hp out a 2v 4.6 at 281 c.i. you'll be a god! the fastest N/A mod motor right now is 368rwhp, running 10.60's in the 1/4. geting a blower is the only way to go you'll spend over 3 times the money to see lower numbers out of an N/A motor rather than $4000 or less for an awsome blower. just a thought!!!!!

Torinalth · Jun 17, 2005

to get to 400 you will have to do a bored out aluminum block to 3.7, stroke it, and do the heads, cams, and all the bolt ons with a P51 and even then i dont think you will be passed 380.... maybe with the ford GT 5.4L aluminum block.... bore that out then stroke the 5.4...... that might get you there...

i've given up on staying NA... way too much money and still smoked by all those cars that i want to beat. for 3600 you can get the 6lb kenne bell... this will put you beating camaros. with 1100 more to get the upgrade to the 9lb and intercooler you are now dropping stock 03 cobras. lil bit more and you are romping vettes. for that same money you would still be having a time of it trying to take down camaros lightly modified if you stay NA.... its a crappy reality, but its not going away.

Torinalth1

artificial HP · Jun 17, 2005

Novi 2k moongoose kit, blower cams and a custom dyno tune. Should be right around 6k maybe a little less.

Dark Knight GT · Jun 17, 2005

If you want to make 400bhp, then I suggest the following:

CNC ported and rebuilt heads. I'de wait until VT Engines comes out with their stage III CNC job and see how well their results is with that.

As for Cams, I'de also wait until VT Engine comes out with their stage III cams to match their stage III cnc cylinder head job.

Second, you need to change your intake over to the Fox Lake setup, like the new one that Ken Bjonnes is using. I'm not sure if his version is available to the public yet, or if its still in testing. If it available, I'de go with that. If not, go with the P-51 setup.

Aside from that, I would go with the following in addition to what you already have listed in your signature:

Long tube Headers
U/D pullies
Cobra R u/d power steering pulley (If you can find it.)
Colder thermostat (I recommend 160* if you don't do tons of winter driving if freezing weather.)
Colder plugs (With all the mods you're talking about, I'de go two steps colder than what you have.)

Follow all this work up with a good tune. A good tune is what will make or break your combo. Once you get the tune, ditch the timing adjuster and sell it for some money.

You may also want to invest in some sticky tires and some suspension work to plant that newly found tire. Remember, suspension work is just as good as hp when racing. If you have a five speed(which, I'm going to assume you do since you have no automatic mods listed), I'de upgrade my clutch assembly, go with a ligher weight flywheel, and add an aluminum driveshaft to the mix. A stronger drivetrain never hurt anything.

Then, there is also the option of boost, which the guys above have covered quite well so no need to comment there.

edbo · Jun 17, 2005

Just get a KB supercharger and be done with it. That sucker would be a BEAST! That's what I'd do if I had 6k to spend on mine. If the 4.10's are too steep for your setup, then go 3.73s.

Dark Knight GT · Jun 17, 2005

edbo said:
Just get a KB supercharger and be done with it. That sucker would be a BEAST! That's what I'd do if I had 6k to spend on mine. If the 4.10's are too steep for your setup, then go 3.73s.

Don't forget that if he decides to run more than 6psi or 8psi intercooled(and I'm imagining he's going to want to) he will need to figure in how much extra money he will need to switch to a forged bottom end cause any more boost than the forementioned amount will destroy the stock bottom end of the motor.

02BlkStang · Jun 17, 2005

6k into heads and cams? Not worth it.

Put the 6k into a nice blower and possibly forged internals.

Dark Knight GT · Jun 17, 2005

02BlkStang said:
6k into heads and cams? Not worth it.

Put the 6k into a nice blower and possibly forged internals.

A nice set of VT Engine stage II cams and Stage II heads along with all needed gaskets and bolts shouldn't cost but around 3k, give or take a few hundred dollars. Even throwing a nice aftermarket intake like the P-51 intake from Fox Lake and a dyno tune shouldn't cost 6 grand. No where close. Now, if he's having all of this stuff professionaly installed, then yeah, it might take the full 6 grand.

2001sleeper · Jun 17, 2005

get a blower and a tune, you will be happier in the long run. The majority of the people i have dealt with start off wanting to build a n/a beast and then hit the performance wall, throw on a blower and quickly realize how much money they wasted from thier n/a attempt.

Magius231 · Jun 17, 2005

the guys at KB have had many motors running the IC 9psi kit without losing the bottom end...its all in the tune (which comes with the blower).

IMO I'm with the guys above, pick up a nice KB 9psi kit for $5200 and see the other side of 400rwhp instead of heads/cams/etc and seeing the low side of 330rwhp.

white96blown2v · Jun 17, 2005

Dark Knight GT said:
A nice set of VT Engine stage II cams and Stage II heads along with all needed gaskets and bolts shouldn't cost but around 3k, give or take a few hundred dollars. Even throwing a nice aftermarket intake like the P-51 intake from Fox Lake and a dyno tune shouldn't cost 6 grand. No where close. Now, if he's having all of this stuff professionaly installed, then yeah, it might take the full 6 grand.

Even the items above will still not even get close to 400 rwhp, If 400 rwhp ever gets reached N/A it will be by the guys at modular depot, I beleive there at 370rwhp and I'm sure they have $13,000 wrapped up in that motor. to get 300rwhp is easily achieved it's after that it really puts a dent in the pocketbook.

Dark Knight GT · Jun 17, 2005

white96blown2v said:
Even the items above will still not even get close to 400 rwhp, If 400 rwhp ever gets reached N/A it will be by the guys at modular depot, I beleive there at 370rwhp and I'm sure they have $13,000 wrapped up in that motor. to get 300rwhp is easily achieved it's after that it really puts a dent in the pocketbook.

He said 400bhp, not rwhp. True, you will not achieve 400rwhp with just bolt-on mods, cams, and head work on a stock 4.6ltr block. Least not with the head and cam options thats out now. With the Stage III cams and heads that VT Engines is comming out with, who knows. He will need more than likely need more displacement. Simple as that. As for spending 13,000 dollars to get there, I don't think KenB has spent 13,000 dollars all in hp mods. Least not on the ones he has now. Fox Lake intake, install kit, Cams, heads, full length exhuast, u/d pullies, and a tune can be had for around 7k. Not 13,000. If you include the suspension work, weight reduction, and drivetrain mods Ken has, then yes, it probably is 13k or better.

white96blown2v · Jun 17, 2005

even at 10% driveline loss, which is unheard of, usually 15-20% that would be 360rwhp sorry but $6000 will not make this happen.I'm not knocking the attempt but highly unlikely also Ken's in take was the new race prototype from fox lake, stage 2 cams,,NOT happening, not that kind of power, stage 2 heads maybe. Not to mention the lower end, yes his last motor was a cheap build-up.Figure the cost of everything to make it correct,it's no worth the money.
AS a guy who had a 11.33e/t N/a 96' gt I still say buy the blower you'll be happier in the long run. this is not to start a pissing match just assuring everyone the truth has been told.

hognutz · Jun 17, 2005

my .02 would be the 6psi kenne bell blower. just due to price.

350rwhp vs 310rwhp and cheaper to boot.

If you want to go n/a I would do the MPH heads, custom cams, p-51 intake, longtubes. more money but would get you 320rwhp+ I would think.

BlackenedSVT · Jun 17, 2005

DUKE said:
I have a 2000GT with all the bolt ons including BBK LT headers. I have about 6K to spend and was thinking about new heads and cams to go with them. I was thinking about MPH stage 2 heads and the stage 2 cams. I would like to get around 400BHP if this is possible. I also have 4.10 gears, so a supercharger is out of the question. My car is my summer daily driver and I don't take it to the track but would like to start to. Thanks for any advice.

Thanks

Plenty of people on the board here have 4.10s and a supercharger. I think you can be fine. And if you have 6k you can EASILY afford a nice supercharge and new 3.73 gears and sell your 4.10s to someone on here. People are always looking to buy up 4.10s.

Unless you LOVE N/A cars like myself, I would spend that 6k on a supercharger without a doubt man. You will DEF see more bang for your buck with the blower. But it would be cool to have 400hp and beat supercharged cars with your NA motor

6k to spend on heads and cams

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300bhp/ton

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Torinalth

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