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'87 Coupe Going Under The Knife... Looking For A Good Forum

  • Thread starter Thread starter NickPohlAandP
  • Start date Start date Sep 5, 2017
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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
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#41
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #41
Cool. Fe motors are boat anchors. You can get a 351 from almost anywhere, they were in production into the late 90s in the E series vans. A 351 can be stroked into a 408 (my preference) or as large as a 427?. Even bigger if you buy a aftermarket block. With stock internals they hold big power.

For info on this let's ask @hoopty5.0 and @Boosted92LX
 
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Davedacarpainter

Chicks can make things hard if they’re inspired...
SN Certified Technician
Nov 28, 2015
11,833
11,633
203
Discordia
Sep 6, 2017
#42
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #42
NickPohlAandP said:
Who is this mysterious man?.
Click to expand...
Let me see if I can get him, @tannerc91gt ? Here's another sacrilegious bastard about to do the unthinkable to a fox body.
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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#43
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #43




Look! It's an LX and a GT. He's just got Pep-Boys hub caps on his.
 
Reactions: 90sickfox and General karthief

NickPohlAandP

I'm motor boating a tranny
Sep 5, 2017
72
64
38
Lake Charles, LA
Sep 6, 2017
#44
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #44
Noobz347 said:




Look! It's an LX and a GT. He's just got Pep-Boys hub caps on his.
Click to expand...

LOL, I don't think you could get that Arrow to do 300 in a dive... at least not without the wings falling off. I've been an A&P for just over 15 years (too dang long), and nothing beats composites when it comes to strength and weight savings.

I will say this though, before I go off on the deep end about how badass the Lancair IV/IV-P is, it has the highest mortality rate of ANY experimental aircraft kit ever produced. My father is among one of those statistics, and he wasn't a weekend warrior pilot. He had a few thousand hours. From your comments and sig pic I can only assume you're involved in aviation, so you should know as good as anyone what happens when you get in trouble with no altitude and no speed. The quill shaft driving the reduction unit broke shortly after takeoff. He had about 100' and 110 mph. The Lancair IV/IV-P doesn't fly below 100 mph.

Subsequently, Lancair no longer offers the IV or IV-P kits. You can still buy one of them if you really want one from Barnstormers or some place like that. I think the average price is around $500,000
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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#45
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #45
NickPohlAandP said:
I've been an A&P for just over 15 years (too dang long), and nothing beats composites when it comes to strength and weight savings.
Click to expand...


Mine is older and @jrichker 's was chiseled onto a stone tablet. Now I build flight simulators. My flight-line is environmentally controlled and I play with toys.

I hope to one-day build my own gun-ship and power it with Protoculture.
 
Reactions: Davedacarpainter, NickPohlAandP and General karthief

NickPohlAandP

I'm motor boating a tranny
Sep 5, 2017
72
64
38
Lake Charles, LA
Sep 6, 2017
#46
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #46
Noobz347 said:
Mine is older and @jrichker 's was chiseled onto a stone tablet. Now I build flight simulators. My flight-line is environmentally controlled and I play with toys.

I hope to one-day build my own gun-ship and power it with Protoculture.
Click to expand...

Hope y'all get new licenses. They took the SSN off and issued actual license numbers a while back.

Ever since my dad died I've had no desire to fly or do anything aviation other than build MY OWN plane (crazy, I know). Now I just want to go fast on 4 wheels. Someday if the wallet allows I'll do another kit plane with a turbo V8. Live and learn.
 

NickPohlAandP

I'm motor boating a tranny
Sep 5, 2017
72
64
38
Lake Charles, LA
Sep 6, 2017
#47
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #47
Well one of my FB buddies is really pushing some good arguments for me to go with a 460 and just drop a 4.300 crank in it. Soooo very tempting. Good thing is, I have time. I'm a long way from needing power for this car.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
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#48
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #48
These days it doesn't require cubic inches that large to make that kind of power. For instance I took a 302 and a supercharger out of a car in the junkyard and made over 400 foot pounds of torque at the rear tires. In all reality the amount of power that the block is going hold is relative to the tune and what kind of Parts you use I have seen high dollar builds blow up on the dyno at 500 horsepower. And I have seen stock engines boosted the heck out of and survive at higher power levels. The only downfall I foresee using 460 as your base is that you're going to be putting a lot of weight over the nose, a smaller displacement engine with a Huffer Orwell built naturally aspirated engine with the correct suspension setup will get you where you want to be.

If you want to run 9s in the quarter mile be prepared to spend money. The difference between a 10 second and a 9 second car is very Deep Pockets
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Sep 6, 2017
#49
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #49
When starting from scratch, building a purpose built drag car w/ a "9 second ET" as a goal...the difference between getting the job done w/ a 454 BBC, or a 460 BBF is a very thin line.
Considering that you currently have Chevy junk to do it with makes that a no brainer. I too would use what you've got.

Back in the day, however,..that was a different story.
Living in the south, (and being a Ford guy) I got sick of seeing a Fox body car immediately stripped of it's powerplant and a SBC/BBC thrown in because "it was cheaper", hat I set out to do the same thing you're doing w/ a 385 series engine sourced from JY stock stuff just to prove that that statement was crap.

I used a JY sourced 460 P.I. engine out of a Crown Vic , and mated that to a C-4. ( I even found the factory C-4 bell to mate that trans to that engine, w/o need for an adapter.)

I documented everything cause my friends were keeping track of how much money (back in 1995) I was spending to prove my point.
It basically amounted to a cast crank/rod block w/ dished, heavy-assed forged TRW pistons. A Comp flat tappet cam and lifter set, A Weiand Stealth dual plane intake, Stock, hand ported heads w/ cheap Manley SS valves, a Holley 3310 vacuum carb, stock Duraspark distributor w/ a MSD 6 A. Some heddman 2" header, an 8.8" rear w/ 4.11's, and a set of DIY 30" ladder bars for traction.
The trans was rebuilt by me using some junk 10" 3500 stall converter from whoever was cheapest at the time....

Oh,.....And two hacked, jacked, and stacked NOS powershot plates that I drilled the spray bar holes out to the same size of the then "Super power shot" plate sizes for the extra 25 hp per plate. The Nos system was staged,..the car was footbraked, and left on one kit, and as soon as I upshifted, the second kit got added in (Total N20 was supposed to be like 350 hp)

I cannot remember the actual ticket price of the total, but IIRC, the whole price tag was less than 3 k front to back.
But everything was new, or newly rebuilt.

Right off the trailer the car N/A would run 7oh somethings,...and high 6.40/6.50's on one kit, and picked up another tenth when I grabbed the second kit. I ran it that way all summer long,...for a total of about 60-70 passes until I blew the thing up trying to get a 6.20..

When I took the engine apart it looked like holy hell inside, The caps were walking all over the place, the thrust side of the cylinder walls were deeply scoured, and the the C-4 looked like I was trying to drive the entire rotating mass out of the end of the case w/ a sledge,....I was rattling the hell out of the engine, and the tops of the pistons looked like they had encountered a mini meteor shower.

It was only a matter of time.

I knew nothing about Nitrous back then,...Nothing about fuel delivery/distribution, timing retard, or plug readings. Nothing about nothing for the power level I had reached or was trying to keep. Nothing about staged/stacked nitrous systems, and why you shouldn't use vacuum secondary carb, on a dual plane intake when trying to do it.
It was only because of the robustness of a 460 architecture, a choice to use forged pistons, and a lot of luck that I managed to prove that point.
Knowing what I know now....I could do it for less, and go way faster.

The whole truth to the story was that an oval port 454 could have had been just as cheap,and the parts were far better built as factory items from the start. I had no 4 bolt block, I had no forged crank/rod/pistons to rebuild as stock replacements.
Even after spending several days w/ a die grinder, my heads looked "choked" (only talking ex port here) compared to an oval port, and literally fell into the holes when compared to a rectangular port comparison..
But back then,...You being a chevy guy, and me being the ford guy that didn't have to break the bank to keep up w/ or beat you.......You'd have never heard that from me.

But as with everything,........ time has a way of softening perspective.

Sooner or later if you hang here, we'll cross paths,...I have the rep for being the forum prick,...mostly because I have a different view of things from what most others think..I'm sure you'll find out one way or the other.
Since I have a lot of time on my hands now days,..I figure that I'd just get all of that out of the way, so that you won't have to wonder if I'm being an asshat or not..

Hello BTW,...my name is Mike.
 
Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
Reactions: 90sickfox and General karthief

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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#50
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #50
madmike1157 said:
.I have the rep for being the forum prick
Click to expand...


Not true



One of these guys is Mike. The OTHER one is the prick.
 
Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
Reactions: Davedacarpainter and General karthief

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
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#51
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #51
Noobz347 said:
Not true



One of these guys is Mike. the OTHER one is the prick. :NICE:
Click to expand...
The one without the pretentious hat!
 

NickPohlAandP

I'm motor boating a tranny
Sep 5, 2017
72
64
38
Lake Charles, LA
Sep 6, 2017
#52
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #52
a91what said:
If you want to run 9s in the quarter mile be prepared to spend money. The difference between a 10 second and a 9 second car is very Deep Pockets
Click to expand...

I'm painfully aware of that. Fortunately I have the technology to do 90% of the labor on my own.

In regard to engine size, I'm still so torn. I have the 454 and TH400 already. I love big blocks, they just sound awesome, but I know I can also build an almost equally badass small block. The turning point from small block to big block is about 427 cid for me. At that point, getting small block heads to support the displacement begins to cost WAY more than just going to a big block with fairly good heads. I also know there's a give and take with weight. There's so many variables that the truth is I probably won't know what's going to power this car until I'm installing it. The only two things I can be sure of is that it will not be a Ford modular, and it will not be a LS. I want old school, gas guzzling, obnoxious pushrod.
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
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#53
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #53
We like obnoxious
 
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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
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#54
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #54
I hate to say it but...... I agree with Mike on this one. If you have the parts run them unless you can unload them and get ford stuff. No need to reinvent the wheel on this one.
 
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Noobz347

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#55
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #55
We'll only point and laugh and talk about you behind your back if it sucks.
 
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90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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#56
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #56
I think you'd have more fun putting that 454 in it... Then you can always sell that set up and build a ford 429...or 460....or even a Cadillac 500...572...

Could always offset turn that 460 crank down to BBC size and make it a 512ci. ...or stroke that 454 to a 502...

That's why I'm not allowed to have enough money to play with the big boys....I'd have so many ideas nothing would stay in my car long...or my pockets. I'd be a total mess.

Stick with what you've got or you'll always wonder what it could've done if you would've put it in that car.
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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Jan 4, 1985
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#57
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #57
 
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tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point
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#58
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #58
I'm the one they mentioned with the GM powered fox here.

This forum has a great group of guys, very friendly and knowledable. There are some cool projects going on here as well. For that reason it's always been the only forum i really hung around on.

That being said, if you're going to swap a non-Ford powerplant and are looking for advice/space to share your progress, I don't think this will be the place you're looking for.
My project doesn't get much hate, and if it does I don't see it. But I also don't get a hell of a lot of feedback/interaction. Most don't like the "off-brand" swap or have as much knowledge in the LS platform so there isn't much to discuss. I lost interest in updating my thread.

Unfortunately (I realize yours is older Chevy tech) places like LS1tech and similar forums aren't that great. Lot of hostility and bad info. Though there are some great guys on those boards as well.

My advice would be to hang around here for all your chassis type questions and from the looks of it you've got solid Ford knowledge to share as well, and maybe dare to venture to a place like Yellowbullet for drivetrain tech.
This place is worth hanging around just for the people.

Most Internet forums are dying off
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
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#59
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #59
tannerc91gt said:
I'm the one they mentioned with the GM powered fox here.

This forum has a great group of guys, very friendly and knowledable. There are some cool projects going on here as well. For that reason it's always been the only forum i really hung around on.

That being said, if you're going to swap a non-Ford powerplant and are looking for advice/space to share your progress, I don't think this will be the place you're looking for.
My project doesn't get much hate, and if it does I don't see it. But I also don't get a hell of a lot of feedback/interaction. Most don't like the "off-brand" swap or have as much knowledge in the LS platform so there isn't much to discuss. I lost interest in updating my thread.

Unfortunately (I realize yours is older Chevy tech) places like LS1tech and similar forums aren't that great. Lot of hostility and bad info. Though there are some great guys on those boards as well.

My advice would be to hang around here for all your chassis type questions and from the looks of it you've got solid Ford knowledge to share as well, and maybe dare to venture to a place like Yellowbullet for drivetrain tech.
This place is worth hanging around just for the people.

Most Internet forums are dying off
Click to expand...

Cliff Notes Version:

We forgive him for his dmbsht so long as he finishes all the sparkle shinys. Otherwise
 

NickPohlAandP

I'm motor boating a tranny
Sep 5, 2017
72
64
38
Lake Charles, LA
Sep 6, 2017
#60
  • Sep 6, 2017
  • #60
90sickfox, I know what you mean. If I had the money I'd have a different engine for every day of the week.

tannerc91gt, LS1 tech is a decent group of guys, but like you pointed out, I'm building old school. I'm not looking to cruise this thing on the Hot Rod power tour so I could give two craps about gas mileage. Maybe if I hit the lotto and I know there won't be more than 100 miles between gas stops, then maybe I'd do it.

As for YellowBullet, that place is where a$$holes congregate. I'm a member over there and there are a few guys who are actually helpful, but mostly what I've seen there is guys who act like they emerged from their mothers crotch with their finger on the trans brake ready to launch a 2500hp car. A$$-holes. Guess what YellowBullet a$$hats, you started somewhere too, maybe with your moms Honda, daddy's pickup, whatever... we all started somewhere.

My first car was a friggin Geo Tracker, and as soon as I joined the Army I purchased a 1970 Chevelle 454 4spd SS clone right out of a frame-off restoration. In half ndsight, I really wish my dad would've taken the title from me because a year later I traded it for a friggin third gen Camaro Z28 thinking I could go faster in that... what a dumbass I was.

Anyway, about 7 years ago I got my first mustang and dove in head first. Aside from another Chevelle, I don't think I'll ever own any other kind of go-fast car other than a mustang. I love em. The suspension is awesome from the factory, they're light, they made ten for every person in China so there's plenty of parts and aftermarket. To me, using anything but a mustang for a street/strip car is a waste of time. I don't care what engine you've got in it... I'm rooting for the mustang every time.

I'll leave this nugget here in case there's any old timers or nostalgic people here. I wasn't born knowing how to build a race car or how to blueprint engines, I read a $hit ton of books, experimented and failed a lot, and was lucky enough to have the man who built/drove this car (and many others, this was just his most famous) teach me a lot.

 
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