88 dies when spout is plugged in

FastDriver · May 15, 2023

MSD box?

Bree · May 15, 2023

On the underside of the distributor. A rectangular thing, has 4 wires plugged into it.
Then again, there's a little something just inside the distributor the SCM plugs into called a stater. (state-er) It could be bad as well.

AeroCoupe · May 15, 2023

Bree,
Reread the whole thread and you will understand that the OP has already swapped the TFI (“rectangular thing, has 4 wires plugged into it”) and the PIP (a little something just inside the distributor the SCM plugs into called a stater.”).

92LX5spd,
It’s like it’s loosing reference voltage or a ground.

Pinellas50 · May 16, 2023

I just went through this on a friend's car a few months ago. It was a bad ECU. He sent it out to be rebuilt and all was good aftetwards.

92LX5spd · May 16, 2023

It may be the ECU even though the caps look good and it visually looks very good, I just want to be sure since I'm blue collar poor. Testing was aborted yesterday because the starter relay died in the middle of all this, lol. I have one I'll put on tonight hopefully and resume testing.

Oh, and no MSD box or any aftermarket stuff like that.

FastDriver · May 16, 2023

If you're fortunate enough to be local to me (Fort Bragg, NC), I have a spare computer.

rednotch · May 16, 2023

I'm sure the speed density ecus are failing with age also but I never messed with those. good thing is there dirt cheap used vs the mass air ones.. Check marketplace in your area can probably pick one up cheap to test it. If it was mass air and local I have an auto and 5spd one's you could check it with.

92LX5spd · May 16, 2023

I got the starter relay in and it fires up, so I'm back to the original symptoms again. I've got a few more thing to check...I've never seen it happen, but can a fuse link fail "intermittently"?

rednotch · May 16, 2023

it's possible Check the voltages and ohm it, give them a good flexing. Had one corroded under the casing so badly was only seeing 3.5 volts to the ecu power supply. That car ran but suffered from cutting out severely under throttle intermittently when I bought it . Ended up throwing an engine harness in that one and redoing all the fuse links.

Kind of wish I kept that one, 93 ny gt, Reef blue over gray 5spd and the million mile odometer, had the old gt40 / x306 crate engine but needed a passenger quarter from rust in the wheel well and the paint was pretty hammered, oddly that was the only spot with rust. If it wasn't a sunroof car I probably would have kept it. sold it for what I was into it for after using it as a daily for a year.. Last time I saw it guy did the body work and paint and was asking 16k for it.

92LX5spd · May 17, 2023

Just spitballing, but if the car is dying with the spout in or out, is the ECU even in play? This is getting to the point where either carb is looking tempting (although I don't really want to do that) or I get the car fixed to the point I can sell it. I've about had it, but nobody's gonna buy a car that doesn't run without me leaving thousands of dollars on the table.

General karthief · May 17, 2023

I believe the 'cranks but no start' checklist has a section for when it will start with the spout plugged in
I'd go to the checklist.

AeroCoupe · May 17, 2023

Check out Joel's post in this thread:

5.0 won't start/run with spout installed - MustangForums.com

5.0L (1979-1995) Mustang - 5.0 won't start/run with spout installed - I've been troubleshooting a continuing shut-off and no start condition for some time now (thank God I have a second vehicle). I started by replacing the distributor because everything I read was pointing at the pickup or TFI...

mustangforums.com

Wasn't sure if you had done this or not.

Additional checks I found from one of his older posts on the Corral:

1. For the wiring check, measure continuity from pin 36 at the ECM connector, ECM and TFI module disconnected, to the SPOUT pin at TFI connector, if it reads @/over 5 ohms, need to trace the wire for an open.

2. TFI and ECM disconnected, key on, check pin 36 for voltage to ground (short to VPWR if you read any voltage)...you can use pin 40 or 60 as your ground reference.

3. ECM and TFI disconnected, check resistance from pin 36 to pins 16, 20, 40, 46 & 60 (short to ground if you get anything below 10k ohms).

4. Same as 3., check resistance from pin 36 to 26 (short to VREF if you get anything below 10k ohms).

5. Same as 3., check resistance from pin 36 to 56 (short to PIP if you get anything below 10k ohms).

Everything checks out?....replace the TFI module....problem repeats after the TFI replacement?....the ECM would be next.

Not sure what happened to him or where he went but I cannot find any new post from him on the Corral or the Yellow Bullet and he used to post regularly on both. Guy was (hopefully still is) a trouble shooting guru.

Did you ever verify that the balancer is good to go i.e. outer ring has not slipped on the inner?

92LX5spd · May 20, 2023

I checked the 10 pin connectors (all looked good) and spread the male pins a bit, ditto the computer ground connector out by the battery. The car's symptoms are all over the place. It fired up after that and ran 15 minutes without stalling but ran horribly rich. I shut it off and restarted it and it ran smooth and fine for about 5 minutes and then shut off. It would restart but only if I fully cycled the key. Ran 3 minutes, then died. The ran 8 minutes and died.

I can't get code 11 or any other codes out of the ECU now. I still have to re-run the test with a test light, since who knows if the dash check engine light has decided to burn out now. I'm guessing this is looking like an ECU problem now. I really want to be rid of the car now but don't want to keep throwing money at it at this point. No body around me has a speed density computer to try. I guess I might bite the bullet and send it off the ECU Exchange...

If I carb convert, I'll keep it, and while its emissions exempt, I always worry about federal laws when yanking emissions equipment.

AeroCoupe · May 20, 2023

I am back to the ECU has issues and needs to be repaired. I know you do not want to hear this but all roads are pointing to it. Just send it off to get repaired and worse case if it does not solve the problem you should be able to sell the ECU for what you paid to send it in.

General karthief · May 20, 2023

I have several SD computers, I'd be glad to send you one but I know nothing about them so may just be handing you another problem.
Get that one checked out, your issue points to a distributor, computer and/or wiring.
I die a little every time someone posts about getting rid of a car because of 'repair frustrations ' .
And a carb swap is even worse.

Noobz347 · May 20, 2023

Has the BAP sensor ever been messed with? Is it still on the firewall with no hose attached to the port?

The intermittent issues you're getting suggest the ECU to me as well. Thirty-five years is a long time and there's bound to be at least one solder crack in there someplace.

I'll tell you right now though, swapping to carb is just a parallel list of issues that will drive you to drink. Once you get this thing figured out, it may run for another 35 years.

rednotch · May 20, 2023

92LX5spd said:
Just spitballing, but if the car is dying with the spout in or out, is the ECU even in play? This is getting to the point where either carb is looking tempting (although I don't really want to do that) or I get the car fixed to the point I can sell it. I've about had it, but nobody's gonna buy a car that doesn't run without me leaving thousands of dollars on the table.

These cars don't need a computer to generate spark with a tfi, with the spout out it reads only the pip signal and fires at base timing. Why you see alot of tfi distutors on budget carb swap cars... With the spout in, the computer controls the spark, so 95% of the time its either a wiring issue or the ecu is not sending the singal, either the caps messing with the voltage or traces corroded away, A failed transitor etc... If its intermittent it might be a pip or tfi issue. You could just lock the timing until you get a spare ecu to test.. Like I said SD ones you almost can't give away.

After seeing the level of repair this guy does on the truck ecu's he would probably be my choice if I couldn't tackle it my self. Keyworksecu out of va. Most people would junk what he fixes with bad traces on the boards.

92LX5spd · May 20, 2023

I am pretty good with carbs and dealt with a variety of them in a past job like Carters, Holleys, Rochesters, Strombergs and even baby Webers. I've also daily driven carbed vehicles for the majority of my life. I also know fuel injection is superior for mileage and drivability in all temps/altitudes. I'd hate to do the carb conversion for something stupid and little I'm missing. I've also about had it with this car and would rather sell it with working injection.

Speaking of stupid, I forgot about the 88's lack of a check engine light. I re-did the test and got code 11 and code 18. I went through all the TFI wires and relevant ECU wires again.

rednotch · May 20, 2023

As far as intermittent and the computer, when my mass air one died last week. I could literally tell just by cycling the key if it would fire, when stuff like that fails they do strange until they completely fail... I could let it sit and it would end up firing up and running until I turn it off they would just non stop crank until I let it sit a bit, I didn't touch the spout to see if it would fire, hell I didn't even test any thing since I had so many problem cars over the years, I just swapped in one of my good 5spd ecu's... I still haven't gone threw it but I'm betting a cap took out just enough of a trace to cause problems on that, you pretty much need a scope to inspect the traces the conformal coating will hide alot.

AeroCoupe · May 20, 2023

Code 18 Spout Connector

Hey guys i have a 93 Gt that has been running wierd lately. sometimes it would run great and then after a few minutes it would just quit. I have changed the TFI module and that did not change anything so i thought it might be the the sensor thing that the TFI module plugs in so i just decided...

stangnet.com

88 dies when spout is plugged in

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

Bree

Active Member

AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

Pinellas50

Active Member

92LX5spd

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

rednotch

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

92LX5spd

rednotch

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

92LX5spd

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

5.0 won't start/run with spout installed - MustangForums.com

92LX5spd

AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

rednotch

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

92LX5spd

rednotch

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

Code 18 Spout Connector

Similar threads

88 dies when spout is plugged in

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

Active Member

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

Active Member

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

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