92 GT Erratic TPS

prgt347

Active Member
Jan 16, 2009
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Car was running perfectly but starter died and it sat in the yard for about 3 weeks. When I got it started it idled at 2k RPM (normally around 800+/-) and would not settle back down. Restarted it, reset the computer, checked all my electrical connections, etc. but no change. Started playing with idle screw and TPS and got it back down to 800 RPM but still not running right. TPS with key on/engine off sits around 1.4 volts and cannot be adjusted below 1.2 without further notching of the holes. After notching the holes I can get it down to about 1.00 volt but it runs terrible (hesitation, surging). Seems 1.3 volts at idle works the best right now. But before starter died the TPS was set at .98 and I never had any issues with it.

At first I thought the TPS (came w/ BBK 65mm T/B) must be bad but I swapped in the TPS from my OE T/B and it registered high, too. I'm starting to think it's not the TPS, but whatever is wrong is showing itself through the TPS reading. Anyone ever run into a problem like this?
 
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Thanks for the info. I checked the VREF at the TPS (orange wire) and it is sitting on 4.95 volts. Need to check the 10-pin next unless you have other suggestions.
 
Think! Is your problem with a voltage too low or too high?

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Go back and read the TPS sticky Adjusting your TPS to 0.98v is NOT necessary and make an attempt to understand what does what. Make the resistance checks and post the results.
 

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Results:
TPS to Battery = 4 ohms
EGR to Battery = 224 ohms
MAP to Battery = .767 ohm

TPS to EGR = 225 ohms
TPS to MAP = .767 ohm
EGR to MAP = 2.7 ohms

But I need to mention that my DVM may be on its way out. I changed the batteries but it doesn't always give me the same readings back to back. Holding the black & red wires together will normally give as low as 1.1 ohm but has been as high as 3.7.

My dad understands all this much more than I do and he is going to help me over the weekend. He will bring a couple of different volt meters and re-run these tests to make sure the numbers are accurate. I will post them also.

I had to replace the stock computer last year due to the fuel pump relay not getting a ground from the computer. Went with a NAPA replacement. If the computer is fried again what are the odds of that? Is there any truth to MSD ignitions causing computer problems? I have a 6A that I've been running for about 6 years.

Happy Thanksgiving folks!
 
After checking everything with an accurate voltmeter we found that the problem was in the TPS connector where it meets the wiring harness. We could get a perfect ground on the harness but nothing on the TPS side. The other two wires seemed to flow through the connector without losing anything, though. Cleaned off the terminal for the ground and everything seems to be back to normal with the TPS.

But...when trying to get the ground we ran a jumper wire from the Black/White on the harness to the Black on the TPS along with having the connector hooked up. Ground was now there but other TPS numbers were very funny. With ignition on (car off) and the ground jumper hooked up I could hear a click on the passenger-side fender...appeared to be the fuel pump relay. Every time we connected the ground jumper with the ignition on I could hear the relay click once. Wondering if we fried the TPS with the ground jumper since that hasn't seemed to work correctly since. Luckily I still had my stock TPS which I put on next. Volts were right in the .96-1.1 range right off the bat. Unplugged the battery for 10 min then restarted and everything seemed to run pretty well - almost back to normal. When I ran the computer test I'm now getting code 96 fuel pump circuit. I'm also getting a 15 but that's probably due to the battery being dead right now.

What are your thoughts on the fuel pump circuit? Sounds like if I can get this last part worked out things may finally be back to normal.
 
b]Code 15[/b] - No Keep Alive Memory power to computer pin 1 or bad computer (Memory Test
Failure). The voltage to the Keep Alive Memory (KAM) is missing (wiring problem)
or the KAM is bad. The KAM holds all of the settings that the computer "learns" as
it operates and all the stored error codes that are generated as a result of
something malfunctioning while the engine is running. Use a voltmeter to check
the voltage to the pin 1 on the computer - you should always have 12 volts. No
constant 12 volts = bad wiring. If you do always have the 12 volts, then the KAM is
bad and the computer is faulty.

If the computer has to "relearn" all the optimum settings every time it powers up,
the initial 5-30 minutes of operation may exhibit surges, poor low speed performance,
and rough idle.

Note that some aftermarket chips will cause code 15 to set. Remove the chip,
clear the codes and retest.


Before replacing the computer, remove the battery ground cable for about 20
minutes. This will clear all the codes. Retest after several days of running. If the 15
code is gone, then don't worry about it. If it is still there, then you get to do some
troubleshooting.

Wiring diagrams for the proper model years are next…

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2
Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Code 96 causes & tests 91-93 models. – KOEO- Fuel pump monitor circuit shows no power - Fuel pump relay or battery power feed was open - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits. The fuel pump circuit lost power at one time or another.

Look for a failing fuel pump relay, bad connections or broken wiring. The fuel pump relay is located under the Mass Air Meter on Fox bodied stangs built after 91. On earlier model cars is under the passenger seat. On Mass Air Conversions, the signal lead that tells the computer that the fuel pump has power may not have been wired correctly. See Mustang Mass Air Conversion «

Diagram of the fuel pump wiring for 91-93 cars.
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Look for power at the fuel pump - the fuel pump has a connector at the rear of the car with a pink/black wire and a black wire that goes to the fuel pump. The pink/black wire should be hot when the test connector is jumpered to the test position. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to ground. No voltage when jumpered, check the fuel pump relay and fuse links.
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Power feed: Look for 12 volts at the pink/black wire (power source for fuel pump relay). No voltage or low voltage, bad fuse link, bad wiring, or connections. Remember that on 92 or later models the fuel pump relay is located under the Mass Air meter. Watch out for the WOT A/C control relay on these cars, as it is located in the same place and can easily be mistaken for the fuel pump relay.

Relay: Turn on the key and jumper the ECC test connector as previously described. Look for 12 volts at the dark green\yellow wire (relay controlled power for the fuel pump). No voltage there means that the relay has failed, or there is a broken wire in the relay control circuit.

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91-93 Models:
Using the diagram, check the dark green/yellow wire from the fuel pump relay: you should see 12 volts or so. If not the relay has failed or is intermittent. Check the inertia switch: on a hatch it is on the drivers side by the taillight. Look for a black rubber plug that pops out: if you don't find it, then loosen up the plastic trim. Check for voltage on both sides of the switch. If there is voltage on both sides, then check the Pink/black wire on the fuel pump relay: it is the power feed to the fuel pump. Good voltage there, then the fuel pump is the likely culprit since it is getting power. No voltage there, check the Pink/black wire, it is the power feed to the fuel pump relay & has a fuse link in it. Good voltage there & at the dark green/yellow wire, swap the relay.
 
Put in a new battery and have tried running the car a few times. Still getting code 15. I have a SCT chip with a custom JMS tune. Took off the chip and started the car - ran terrible. Would start every time but choke and die. Ran codes - 11s. Put chip back on and restarted the car. Started off great and idled at 800 where it normally is. I revved it a few times and it sounded pretty good. Then it started sputtering and died - acting like when the chip was not in. Will still start every time but choke and die. Getting code 15 again.

Went ahead and checked voltage on Pin 1 with the computer disconnected and am getting as high as 11.82 volts depending on which ground I use. My DVM is reading about 11.30 on the battery terminals for a reference number.

Last year when the stock computer went out I drove the car from Pass Christian to Lucedale, MS (50+ miles) with the replacement computer and no chip. Although the car ran a little rough it made it there fine. JMS updated the chip for the replacement computer and it ran like a champ. So I don't believe it's as simple as saying the chip is bad - without it I expect the car would run as it did before - rough but driveable, not choking and dying. Where to go next on this?

And thanks again for all the information you've given me. I can't tell you how much it helps.
 
At this time a complete list of your mods would help the diagnostic process. There may be some item that is a likely suspect, but since we have no idea what you have, it is difficult to tell. That's why it is a good idea to use the sig under the user control panel (User CP) option. It allows you to post your car year & mods, which help greatly when troubleshooting things.
 
Just went in and updated the garage/vehicle. Think I did it right. Let me know if you need more specific information on any part. Another thing I'll mention is that the car sits outside in the yard for most of its life and is driven once or twice a week. Humidity can get extremely high here also.
 
I also show a code 15 on my computer with a Motorvation custom tuned chip for my Mustang, and with the chip removed showes a code 11, all systems good. So the info you received about some aftermarket chips showing a code 15, I would believe. Other than an Idle issue I have with or without the chip,my 306 runs great and I feel just a bit stronger on the "Chip".
 
Seems like fuel is getting to the engine so it may be spark-related. Fuel pump is receiving power. Even switched out the fuel pump relay since I had an extra on hand - no change so I put the other back in. Pulled #1 spark plug and everything looks fine other than it being slightly damp with gas. Bypassed the MSD ignition and ran stock ignition but didn't change anything. Will run some more tests but wanted to put this info out in case it helps...