95 GT - Upgrading to 99+ PBR Brakes

lucidbarrier · Feb 13, 2019

1995 Mustang GT 5.0L Stock Auto

I have a stock 95 GT. I think it may have the original mufflers still on the car, it's that stock. I've been noticing that the brakes are getting pretty mushy in the front. I recently replaced the rear brake caliper & bracket, rotors and brake hoses and it's a bit better. I put new rotors and ceramic pads in the front about a year ago. Instead of replacing the front calipers with the single piston stuff, I want to upgrade. I picked up front PBR calipers, caliper brackets & brake hoses from a 2001 Mustang at the junkyard. I'm planning on getting some Ceramic brake pads locally.

I understand I am supposed to shave the spindles down to fit the calipers to the spindles but what do I use to do that? I have a Porter Cable pancake compressor and a Black & Decker RTX.

Also, what kind of a master cylinder do I need to run? The stock 95 one has a lot of miles and it may be why my pedal is so mushy. I read somewhere to run the 93 Cobra master cylinder or another one but I cannot find the thread. There was something about hydroboost on the 96 and up but I didn't really know what that meant.

Thanks for the help!

General karthief · Feb 13, 2019

Hydroboost is where the power steering pump provides the boost. Good system, should be plug and play on a 95.
Also if you'll scroll down to the bottom of the page here there are links to similar threads on the subject, also check out the technical/how to threads on the main tech talk pages, keep in mine that you may have to schelp over to the sn95 tech forums for some upgrades.

96pushrod · Feb 13, 2019

Stock master cylinder, stock proportioning valve, stock everything.

I literally bolted on the pbr brackets and calipers to my sn95 spindles. No shaving, nothing. I don’t have any clearance issues.

lucidbarrier · Feb 14, 2019

96pushrod said:
Stock master cylinder, stock proportioning valve, stock everything.

I literally bolted on the pbr brackets and calipers to my sn95 spindles. No shaving, nothing. I don’t have any clearance issues.

What really? I'm going to take a look at them soon and see if they fit like yours. Shoot, I could do them this week if that's the case. What year is your Stang? Did you notice a firmer pedal using the same master cylinder?

General karthief said:
Hydroboost is where the power steering pump provides the boost. Good system, should be plug and play on a 95.
Also if you'll scroll down to the bottom of the page here there are links to similar threads on the subject, also check out the technical/how to threads on the main tech talk pages, keep in mine that you may have to schelp over to the sn95 tech forums for some upgrades.

Maybe it was the sn95 forums that I saw the info on. I can't seem to find it here on stangnet.

Road_Runna · Feb 14, 2019

This is the first time i've ever heard of this swap. So obviously there is better braking power. And it's an easy bolt on?

lucidbarrier · Feb 14, 2019

Road_Runna said:
This is the first time i've ever heard of this swap. So obviously there is better braking power. And it's an easy bolt on?

The sn95 Mustangs had single piston calipers and 11" rotors and then in 99 they upgraded to dual piston calipers but kept the same diameter rotor. So they are almost direct bolt on. Some people say that you can just bolt them on and others say that you have to grind a little off the spindles so they clear the calipers. I think it maybe only for years 94-95 that you need to grind. You need 99+ specific brake hoses though. You may or may not need to change the master cylinder for better brake feel.

From what I've seen, the brake pads are much bigger on the later style dual piston setup, they look like they have some bite to them.

Here is an overview:
https://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/2009.shtml

I finally found the stuff about the Master Cylinder here (post #8) grinding the spindles/which MC to use at (post #30):
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/good-brakes-for-my-gt-1995-5-0.833678/

96pushrod · Feb 14, 2019

lucidbarrier said:
What really? I'm going to take a look at them soon and see if they fit like yours. Shoot, I could do them this week if that's the case. What year is your Stang? Did you notice a firmer pedal using the same master cylinder?

I’ve swapped the pbr calipers onto a 96, as well as a 95 mustang and neither one needed any grinding. Although even if it does need to be ground down it will only take you a minute a side. I can’t say pedal feel stiffer after I swapped them in, which is good since I didn’t have to buy a new mc.

The best is when you can find them at a junkyard. That way you can unbolt the whole bracket, with caliper attached as well as the soft line where they attach to the body. I paid $54 for everything at lkq last time. Leave it all bolted together and they usually just charge you for the brakes themselves.

The whole swap, including time at the junkyard and hitting the store for brake fluid, only takes an able person about about 1 1/2 - 2 hrs. Well worth it for dual pistons and going from steel to aluminum for the weight reduction.

lucidbarrier · Feb 14, 2019

96pushrod said:
I’ve swapped the pbr calipers onto a 96, as well as a 95 mustang and neither one needed any grinding. Although even if it does need to be ground down it will only take you a minute a side. I can’t say pedal feel stiffer after I swapped them in, which is good since I didn’t have to buy a new mc.

Interesting! What did you use? An angle grinder with the stock stone? I was looking at a 6 amp Makita for $55 a Home Depot. I'm going to pull off the calipers this weekend and test fit them.

96pushrod said:
The best is when you can find them at a junkyard. That way you can unbolt the whole bracket, with caliper attached as well as the soft line where they attach to the body. I paid $54 for everything at lkq last time. Leave it all bolted together and they usually just charge you for the brakes themselves.

The whole swap, including time at the junkyard and hitting the store for brake fluid, only takes an able person about about 1 1/2 - 2 hrs. Well worth it for dual pistons and going from steel to aluminum for the weight reduction.

I bought the entire clip - front calipers, brackets and brake hoses with pads for $35 locally from a 2001 mustang. I just ordered a new set of pads for store pickup from Advance. I'm excited to give them a shot.

Something feels mushy in my brake system. It could be the master cylinder or it could be the front brake hoses. I did swap the ceramic pads from Oreillys to pads from Advance because my mechanic had installed them. I don't know how much a difference pads would make but I guess I will see how much of a difference just the calipers makes. I am going to order the 1993 Cobra MC soon so that I can have a new MC in there.

Thanks for your responses!

Mustang5L5 · Feb 14, 2019

You don't need to grind much off. What you are doing is clearancing the area around the bolt pass thru to clear the larger pistons on the 2 piston Caliper. On the 96-04 spindles this is already done. The 94-95 spindle just need a tiny bit take off.

As for the master cylinder, the stock MC is a 1 1/16" bore MC. Ford switched to a 1.003" master cylinder in 1999 when they went to the dual piston PBR. The v6 used vacuum booster same as the 94-95.

The 99-04 calipers piston surface area for both fronts is 9% less than the 94-98 Caliper. So without a MC swap the pedal will be a tad bit firmer. It also shortens the stroke by about 9% Will it be noticeable? Depends on the driver really.

The 1993 cobra MC is 1.0 and about 10% less piston surface area. So swapping to the cobra MC should keep pedal feel and stroke in optimum range.

My advice? Swap the calipers, bleed the hell out of the system and bed on the brakes and see how you like it. If you notice you need extra leg effort than you'd like to stop fast, swap the cobra MC in.

BtW I do not believe 94-98 front brake lines are compatible with the 99+ calipers. Also, there was both a fine and coarse banjo bolt. I would have the correct one on hand first before installing.

lucidbarrier · Feb 14, 2019

Mustang5L5 said:
You don't need to grind much off. What you are doing is clearancing the area around the bolt pass thru to clear the larger pistons on the 2 piston Caliper. On the 96-04 spindles this is already done. The 94-95 spindle just need a tiny bit take off.

The 99-04 calipers piston surface area for both fronts is 9% less than the 94-98 Caliper. So without a MC swap the pedal will be a tad bit firmer. It also shortens the stroke by about 9% Will it be noticeable? Depends on the driver really.

The 1993 cobra MC is 1.0 and about 10% less piston surface area. So swapping to the cobra MC should keep pedal feel and stroke in optimum range.

My advice? Swap the calipers, bleed the hell out of the system and bed on the brakes and see how you like it. If you notice you need extra leg effort than you'd like to stop fast, swap the cobra MC in.

BtW I do not believe 94-98 front brake lines are compatible with the 99+ calipers. Also, there was both a fine and coarse banjo bolt. I would have the correct one on hand first before installing.

That's what I plan on doing. I just need to know what to use to grind the spindles. I have been mostly a Camaro driver, IROC and Z28 so the brake feel is entirely different to me. I wouldn't mind having a firmer pedal. I pulled the entire front brake assembly off the JY mustang, including the brake hoses and banjo bolt. It's all one piece ready to go. Thanks for all the info and the pictures.

96pushrod · Feb 14, 2019

lucidbarrier said:
Interesting! What did you use? An angle grinder with the stock stone? I was looking at a 6 amp Makita for $55 a Home Depot. I'm going to pull off the calipers this weekend and test fit them.

I bought the entire clip - front calipers, brackets and brake hoses with pads for $35 locally from a 2001 mustang. I just ordered a new set of pads for store pickup from Advance. I'm excited to give them a shot.

Something feels mushy in my brake system. It could be the master cylinder or it could be the front brake hoses. I did swap the ceramic pads from Oreillys to pads from Advance because my mechanic had installed them. I don't know how much a difference pads would make but I guess I will see how much of a difference just the calipers makes. I am going to order the 1993 Cobra MC soon so that I can have a new MC in there.

Thanks for your responses!

I didn’t grind any material off my spindles. If I were to grind some off though I would use a flap disc with the most course abrasive I could find. Harbor freight has 36 grit that works great for the money. I’d be willing to bet if you install everything and properly bleed the system the pedal will feel great.

Mustang5L5 said:
The 99-04 calipers piston surface area for both fronts is 9% less than the 94-98 Caliper. So without a MC swap the pedal will be a tad bit firmer. It also shortens the stroke by about 9% Will it be noticeable? Depends on the driver really.

The 1993 cobra MC is 1.0 and about 10% less piston surface area. So swapping to the cobra MC should keep pedal feel and stroke in optimum range.

My advice? Swap the calipers, bleed the hell out of the system and bed on the brakes and see how you like it. If you notice you need extra leg effort than you'd like to stop fast, swap the cobra MC in.

BtW I do not believe 94-98 front brake lines are compatible with the 99+ calipers. Also, there was both a fine and coarse banjo bolt. I would have the correct one on hand first before installing.

The pedal may be firmer than stock. It’s been awhile since I didn’t run pbr duals on an sn95 so I couldn’t tell you. What I can say is that the stock mc and the pbr duals calipers together have good pedal feel. If someone has issues with it then something isn’t right.

The soft lines from the 99+ bolt right up to the hardline. I just disconnected everything at the flare fitting and bolted it right up. No fuss.

Road_Runna · Feb 15, 2019

lucidbarrier said:
The sn95 Mustangs had single piston calipers and 11" rotors and then in 99 they upgraded to dual piston calipers but kept the same diameter rotor. So they are almost direct bolt on. Some people say that you can just bolt them on and others say that you have to grind a little off the spindles so they clear the calipers. I think it maybe only for years 94-95 that you need to grind. You need 99+ specific brake hoses though. You may or may not need to change the master cylinder for better brake feel.

From what I've seen, the brake pads are much bigger on the later style dual piston setup, they look like they have some bite to them.

Here is an overview:
https://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/2009.shtml

I finally found the stuff about the Master Cylinder here (post #8) grinding the spindles/which MC to use at (post #30):
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/good-brakes-for-my-gt-1995-5-0.833678/

Is it only the 99 GT models that came with dual piston or can they be found on the v6's as well?

Road_Runna · Feb 15, 2019

Road_Runna said:
Is it only the 99 GT models that came with dual piston or can they be found on the v6's as well?

Never mind, just looked it up, also included in the v6's.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 15, 2019

Road_Runna said:
Never mind, just looked it up, also included in the v6's.

99-04 GT and V6's.

Keep in mind those PBR's are notorious for the pistons seizing in the bores. Definitely check to see that theyt move freely. In fact, since you have them out, it would be a great time to pop the pistons out and install a new piston seal and boot kit. They are cheap and very easy to do. You just need compressed air to pop out the pistons and some non-Moly based syn brake grease to reassemble.

General karthief · Feb 15, 2019

Watch where your fingers are when you pop those pistons out, they can be kinda violent!

lucidbarrier · Feb 16, 2019

96pushrod said:
I didn’t grind any material off my spindles. If I were to grind some off though I would use a flap disc with the most course abrasive I could find. Harbor freight has 36 grit that works great for the money. I’d be willing to bet if you install everything and properly bleed the system the pedal will feel great.

That's exactly what I needed to know. I went to Home Depot and got a $50 Milwaukee 7 amp 4.5" grinder and a couple of 60 grit flap discs that had a backing plate already (they were out of 40). That was actually a lot of fun using the grinder.

I had a tough time trying to put the calipers over the new pads until I realized the junkyard calipers had the pads in wrong. There is an inner and outer pad. They have the backing rivets in different places so they don't interfere with slipping the caliper on. Once I figured that out it made it a bit easier. The only thing I had left to do was to bleed the brakes and the bleeder screws are both seized and stripped. Normally, this is the first thing I check but I totally forgot about it. I spent about 5 hours working on the brakes only to get stopped by something so small.

I think I am going to get a torch tomorrow and heat those bleeders up and try to break them free.

95 GT - Upgrading to 99+ PBR Brakes

lucidbarrier

New Member

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

96pushrod

I think they're a little easier to get off

lucidbarrier

New Member

Road_Runna

lucidbarrier

New Member

96pushrod

I think they're a little easier to get off

lucidbarrier

New Member

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

lucidbarrier

New Member

96pushrod

I think they're a little easier to get off

Road_Runna

Road_Runna

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

lucidbarrier

New Member

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95 GT - Upgrading to 99+ PBR Brakes

New Member

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

I think they're a little easier to get off

New Member

New Member

I think they're a little easier to get off

New Member

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

New Member

I think they're a little easier to get off

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

New Member

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