AFR 165

65driver289 · Mar 22, 2010

I just got my bonus from last year and have decided to get a set of AFR 165's
I need some advice on what I really need to put these heds on the first time. my specs are:
jasper 289 block bored.40 over and stock bottom end. edlebrock performe intake 600cfm edelbrock carb.
I believe i need to order different pushrods but it looks like everything else should bolt right up. allot of people say I should changethe cam too.

rbohm · Mar 22, 2010

you dont need to change pushrods, these are bolt on heads, unless you are changing you rocker arms. as for changing the cam, you dont need to, but a better than stock cam would be a good idea to get the most out of these heads. something like the comp cams he268h cam is a good choice for a basically stock motor with the 165 heads. much bigger than that and i would recommend going to the 185 heads instead.

D.Hearne · Mar 22, 2010

You can use em on any Ford small block and make power. The bigger the cubes you put under them, the lower in the rpm band the power is made. Ditto for a cam, the bigger the cubes the tamer the cam will be. I'd not only go with more cam than you have now, but also ditch the Performer intake for an RPM, Stealth, or a Ford Racing A321.

68RCodeConv · Mar 23, 2010

All the elements of the motor need to work optimally. With those heads normally I would recommend a cam that makes power to about 6500 but I don't know if your short block can take it.

Select a cam that makes power from about 2000 - 6000 and you should be OK. Probably something in the 225/225 range (at 050) with about .500 lift and 109-110 LSA.

mustangbrad · Mar 23, 2010

I say skip the 165's and go to 185's. You won't lose any low end power, and you will have room to grow (power wise) down the road.

D.Hearne · Mar 23, 2010

68RCodeConv said:
All the elements of the motor need to work optimally. With those heads normally I would recommend a cam that makes power to about 6500 but I don't know if your short block can take it.

Select a cam that makes power from about 2000 - 6000 and you should be OK. Probably something in the 225/225 range (at 050) with about .500 lift and 109-110 LSA.

You're making a cam recomendation without knowing what he wants the motor to do ? Or how it's going to be driven ? A wider LSA than what you've listed here will also work better for a street driven car.

S-Car-Go · Mar 24, 2010

You won't know if you need push rods until you measure with the new heads installed. Your heads may have been milled. The deck height may or may not be the same. If you change cams, that will effect push rod lenght as well. No one can tell you more than "maybe" at this point. Are your current push rods hardened? You will need that with guide plates.

The cam defines the personality of the motor. You should figure out exactly what you want then then ask for advice on how to get there. Things like drivability, gearing, transmission, type of driving (freeway, cruise night, strip, road course), idle quality, sound, mileage, and of course power band all come into play.

JohnnyGMachine · Mar 24, 2010

The 165s are impressive especially if you go with the 165 competiton port versions with 7/16 studs and beefier valve springs. That's the route I went based off the 302 motor and 165 comp heads built for a 2-3 issue installment in Muscle Mustang and Fast Fords magazine. On a stock 1985 5.0 (Merc. capri car) they made I think about 317 hp to the wheels. Click here for the specs and article write up. Lunati cam has a .525 lift I believe. I followed the build exactly except I'm running a Holley 650 DP, Canton pan & scraper, and longtube headers. Evan Smith (editor) thinks I may even be able to squeeze closer to 340 rwhp with my differences and also due to the fact that I am running manual brakes and steering in my 85 Notchback.
Read here on MM&FF "King Capri" Project car

Ford Capri AFR Cylinder Head - Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords Magazine

Here's a couple pics of the same heads I bought for my notch for you to drool over...

10secgoal · Mar 24, 2010

I'd measure after the heads are one, especially if the cam changes. After market head are usually .100 long on the valves so they can get more spring in there without bind. Will it run ? Yes. Ideal no. Plus it's good policy to get hardened push rods, so you might as well get the right length.

Stang_1973 · Mar 24, 2010

Might also consider a stall converter to get make use of your power band if you step up the cam.

Decurion · Mar 24, 2010

Depending what the rest of your combination is, you may even want to just run a stock H.O. cam. With a set of 1.7 rockers, itll make good power and keep a mild idle to go along with your Performer intake which is designed for lower performance than the Performer RPM intake. That will also go well with a stock converter and numerically low gears you may or may not have. Just beware that stock roller lifters wont work in your old block, so youll need retrofit lifters. Theyre available from Jegs or Lunati (and others) for around $300. When it comes time to actually measure for pushrods, buy an adjustable pushrod. Its the only real way to know what the correct lenght pushrod is for your application. Having the wrong length pushrods can cause excessive noise, wear out the guides, and lose power. I actually just came across a nice how-to on Lunatis website just the other day.
How to Verify Valvetrain Geometry - Lunati Power

Edit: Running the valvesprings made for a hyd roller cam may be a little too stiff for your old stock flat tappets, and youll run the risk of wiping out a lobe. You may be fine, you may not, I wasnt so lucky. Also, the best H.O. cams are from speed density cars, so 86-88 Mustang, and all Mark 7s, though basically all the H.O.s are very very close.

bikefreak600 · Mar 24, 2010

keep in mind afr's stock components are known for failing. i recommend buying a set of heads from a shop that will assemble your heads with better components. as previously said i would not waste your time with 165's. go with 185 or 205 heads. dont be fooled by the myth big heads=no low rpm torque. this is simply not true. bigger heads will make more power ALL rpm range, thus allowing you to run a smaller cam = better streetability. i know 205 might sound like a bit overkill, but its the cam & intake that are responsible of the rpm band. NOT the size of the heads.

do some in depth research before you by afr165's, chances are you will sell them later down the road to upgrade. try to find some dyno tests and compare head/cam combos that really work. just my .02

65driver289 · Mar 24, 2010

thanks for all of the advice/ I talked to AFR yesterday and they said all the stock stuff will work but if i was goingto stay with a flat tap cam I should order the heads with lighter springs and they gave me a part#. I also called comp cams they recomended the extrem energy 264 I believe. I left all my notes in my car at work. If I do the cam I am guessingI need to do lifters too. put it all together and then order the corect length push rods. also I called CJ pony parts the are a AFR dealer and they should call me back tommorow to let me know if they can order the 165s with the lighter springs for the same price. I have had this car for 12 years and never had it to the track. it is really a cruiser. reliability is important to me. to be honest there is a kid in town with a ratty looking 65 vert with wheel covers that looks like a straight 6 old ladys car. he has a 347 stroker and I am getting tired of getting my doors blown off!!

68EFIvert · Mar 24, 2010

bikefreak600 said:
do some in depth research before you by afr165's, chances are you will sell them later down the road to upgrade. try to find some dyno tests and compare head/cam combos that really work. just my .02

This is exactly what I did. I had a set of 165's on my engine for about a year and then decided to do it again but make it stronger. I ended up selling my engine at a big loss and picked up a set of heads from Jay Allen at Camshaftinnovations.com. I got a set of Trick Flow Fast As Cast (too big for what you are looking for) but you should look into the standard Trick Flow 170 cc heads. Jay can also help design a cam for the whole combo to work like it should.

I used to have a Ford E cam and hated it. Poor idle quality and constant surging. Jays cam idles great, much more vacuum but the best part is my new combo should have about 150 more HP than the old. I should be around 550 rwhp but very streetable. Jays knows his sheet! Give him a call before you buy anything, it would be worth it. He is also on *******.com quite a bit.

mustangbrad · Mar 25, 2010

Before you buy anything go to sbf tech.com (remove the space between sbf & tech) and do more research. Not that you are going down a bad path, but there are better paths to take. In my opinion you should definately talk to Jay Allen for a cam and head combo. It is always cheaper to do it right once the first time, than buy cheaper stuff and redo it down the road.

bikefreak600 · Mar 27, 2010

seems like majority agrees about doing research before you buy

TOO THE ORIGINAL THREAD STARTER... DONT rely on the manufacture for advise. 99% will just sell you what they have. try looking into shops that build heads or offer head porting services of all brands of heads. they will give you unbiased opinions of what parts are reliable, good or worthless. keep in mind they also pay attention to the quality of the valve components included.
camshaftinnovations is a great place to start, however he leans toward trickflow heads, however if you are set on afr's he will set you up with the correct components that will work well together. I GUARANTEE he will tell you to buy AFR's bare casting.
its always a great idea to spend money and buy better than you need valves, springs, retainers, lock etc.. if you buy junk it will cost you more $$ in the end

i am not trying to tell you what to do, just stating there are lots of options out there, maybe out of the box heads will work just fine for you. i dont know what is best for your application but i know from experience going with otb heads leaves much to be desired.

AFR 165

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