And why can't Ford figure out how to do this?
- Thread starter Mr_Q
- Start date
autumn_again
New Member
That's pretty sexy.
I've also ridden and driven in some REALLY nice Watts setups....but they just don't compare when tossing your car up on the curbs or when dealing with an uneven track.
I know there are professional teams that stand by them but have still yet to meet a tech that; if it was an option to have a fully designed IRS; would say no to it. Even with the added costs.
I've also ridden and driven in some REALLY nice Watts setups....but they just don't compare when tossing your car up on the curbs or when dealing with an uneven track.
I know there are professional teams that stand by them but have still yet to meet a tech that; if it was an option to have a fully designed IRS; would say no to it. Even with the added costs.
NastyStang113
New Member
That's why it should be a factory option. Part of "sport pack" or something.
The drag guys can have their iron telephone pole that they can launch day in and out for eternity with no worries and the road course guys can toss it up at the track with their IRS.
The drag guys can have their iron telephone pole that they can launch day in and out for eternity with no worries and the road course guys can toss it up at the track with their IRS.
NastyStang113
New Member
HA HA HA....yes...the Grigg's stuff is bad ass....I've tracked them seen what they have done. But that stuff is $4500 to $15,000. It's also not really practical for street/weekend racer.
A well engineered, mass marketed IRS can give weekend racers everything they need for far cheaper. As nearly every other car company who makes performance oriented cars has shown.
This isn't even really an argument. Everyone knows IRS is progress for suspension. It's just been absent from most Pony cars for two reasons.......cost and strength (drag racing).
I don't want to buy an Audi, Nissan, Porsche, Mazda, Dodge, BMW or a GM. I want to buy a Mustang with a modern suspension is all I am saying!
A well engineered, mass marketed IRS can give weekend racers everything they need for far cheaper. As nearly every other car company who makes performance oriented cars has shown.
This isn't even really an argument. Everyone knows IRS is progress for suspension. It's just been absent from most Pony cars for two reasons.......cost and strength (drag racing).
I don't want to buy an Audi, Nissan, Porsche, Mazda, Dodge, BMW or a GM. I want to buy a Mustang with a modern suspension is all I am saying!
mustangford289
Founding Member
G's
I was watching a video comparison on you tube the other day that showed that a Shelby GT pulled .88 G's....that's the same G's as 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI with IRS and true high performance tires that they were comparing it to...
I heard the G's on the new camaro is .89 G's with IRS, about as good as a Shelby GT, or even a stock GT for that matter which is .91 (2010, on Edmonds dot com)....be careful what u wish for....you may get it, all 500lbs of it....IRS may not fair much better in a heavy car like the Mustang....
I was watching a video comparison on you tube the other day that showed that a Shelby GT pulled .88 G's....that's the same G's as 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI with IRS and true high performance tires that they were comparing it to...
I heard the G's on the new camaro is .89 G's with IRS, about as good as a Shelby GT, or even a stock GT for that matter which is .91 (2010, on Edmonds dot com)....be careful what u wish for....you may get it, all 500lbs of it....IRS may not fair much better in a heavy car like the Mustang....
walter
Founding Member
Sadly because in our cars it would be a cost to weight ratio issue. Either way you lose. Oh well till then the Fays2 watts link does just fine.
(or I take my better half's 350Z for a spin if I want that IRS feeling but I didn't say that)
(or I take my better half's 350Z for a spin if I want that IRS feeling but I didn't say that)
Guys.."g" is about 1/3 of actual track handling. How the car responds under load when the suspension deflects and so on.
To continue.....
How the cars weight is handled under load. How the suspension reacts to weight transfer and deflection, etc. Solid axle cars, even Watts, still hop out in situations where an IRS won't. IRS is just abetted solution for road course.
How the cars weight is handled under load. How the suspension reacts to weight transfer and deflection, etc. Solid axle cars, even Watts, still hop out in situations where an IRS won't. IRS is just abetted solution for road course.
GreyDiesel
New Member
true... though I have been reading the car review sites, and it is surprising, they all seem to love the 2010 Mustang even with the solid axle. And, the reviews coming in on the new camaro are not that stellar. The IRS+ bigger engine add enough weight to the camaro, that even the 420hp puts it in the same ballpark handling and acceleration as the mustang. The mustang is the lightest car you can get with a V8 (supercars excluded). Maybe being lighter helps with handling, as much as a solid axle hurts the handling, so the result is a wash. I will be curious to watch the KONI series this year and see how the camaros stack up against the mustangs.
I get what your saying about the car jumping out from under you, especially while hitting curbs. Ford did put an IRS in the Cobra, so they know how to do it. Maybe the IRS will come out with the Coyote engine in 2011 or 2012... though I doubt it.
If they did, I would buy that. Are you listening Ford?
who am I kidding, I would probably buy it anyway.
I get what your saying about the car jumping out from under you, especially while hitting curbs. Ford did put an IRS in the Cobra, so they know how to do it. Maybe the IRS will come out with the Coyote engine in 2011 or 2012... though I doubt it.
If they did, I would buy that. Are you listening Ford?
who am I kidding, I would probably buy it anyway.
Yeah weight is always an issue. That's why you have to use aluminum and magnesium. Which can be expensive. But this is what I am saying. I'd tick off the option box for such a setup from Ford. It might mean upwards of $2000 or more, but engineered for daily drive and mass market would so be worth it.
And don't get me started on a true unequal length aluminum control arm front......heh. The back needs more help than the front right now.
Also, don't take my post to that Camaro site as me drooling over the performance of it. I was just impressed with the design of the IRS. I have no idea how it actually performs. I am aware that the Camaro is a pig. Something like over 4000lbs?!?! Yikes.
And don't get me started on a true unequal length aluminum control arm front......heh. The back needs more help than the front right now.
Also, don't take my post to that Camaro site as me drooling over the performance of it. I was just impressed with the design of the IRS. I have no idea how it actually performs. I am aware that the Camaro is a pig. Something like over 4000lbs?!?! Yikes.
mustangford289
Founding Member
Cobra
Ford has built a mustang with IRS in the past. It coast a lot more and was a sales failure. Also, it did not handle all that much better than a stock GT....The demand is low....the cost is high and the weight is high....Using aluminum...costs big, look at the high end Vette....
Ford has built a mustang with IRS in the past. It coast a lot more and was a sales failure. Also, it did not handle all that much better than a stock GT....The demand is low....the cost is high and the weight is high....Using aluminum...costs big, look at the high end Vette....
The Ford IRS in that SVT was a terrible design. Poorly planned and rushed out on a platform never designed in the first place to have one.
Do not judge the potential of an IRS on a Mustang by that offering.
Do not judge the potential of an IRS on a Mustang by that offering.
An IRS would be awesome, but you can make a stick axle perform very well (very close to IRS levels). The main issue with our rear suspension is the very short upper control arm, it's far too short for proper geometry, which is one of the main causes for our wheel hop issues. A torque arm setup would eliminate this issue, griggs sells one. Speaking of griggs, yes their kits are very expensive, but their race front kit claims to remove over 250lbs from the nose! And is an SLA setup, which is better than our MacPherson strut setup, which in turn frees up enough room to run 315 tires up front!
Ironically, the 5th gen F-bodys used an SLA front setup, so they went a little backwards up front while getting more advanced in the back. Food for thought though, the M3 uses a MacPherson strut assembly very similar to the mustangs for their front suspension, and that's on a 3700lbs car.
Ironically, the 5th gen F-bodys used an SLA front setup, so they went a little backwards up front while getting more advanced in the back. Food for thought though, the M3 uses a MacPherson strut assembly very similar to the mustangs for their front suspension, and that's on a 3700lbs car.
The suspension system from a mass market vendor I am most impressed with currently is Nissan's 370z. It's absolutely gorgeous. No wonder that can has been ripping the track up.
The 350s was really good but had some flaws, the 370s is evolution. Now to bolt it up to a Mustang.....I kid...I kid..
The 350s was really good but had some flaws, the 370s is evolution. Now to bolt it up to a Mustang.....I kid...I kid..
ufnavy06
Member
Everything I've seen about the new GT vs the SS is the GT with the track pak performs nearly on par or better than the SS in the handling realm. I mean that's amazing! Can you imagine the Stage 2 Roush? I am partial to that suspension package but either the FR or the Roush packages put the cars on the same playing field when it comes to handling.
Can you imagine the Slomaro without the IRS???? That wouldn't be pretty I'm sure.
Can you imagine the Slomaro without the IRS???? That wouldn't be pretty I'm sure.
walter
Founding Member
That's why Handling is not the same thing as Cornering. Unfortunately too many people get this wrong or just don't plain understand the difference.
A live axle IN A PERFECTLY MAINTAINED RACETRACK is better then an IRS setup as it keeps the wheels parallel and allows for higher CORNERING limits. In the rear world it really needs a watts link to make sense of the potholes and imperfections that public streets often throw at the driver.
A live axle IN A PERFECTLY MAINTAINED RACETRACK is better then an IRS setup as it keeps the wheels parallel and allows for higher CORNERING limits. In the rear world it really needs a watts link to make sense of the potholes and imperfections that public streets often throw at the driver.
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