This it true and I agree that Saleen wants way too much money for their kits, but I think you're really paying more for the name when you buy one of them. I doubt when they set the prices of these kits, that it was meant to be a reflection on their value for the dollar performance in comparison to other blowers. it's not really the fault of the Eaton. That same blower is used after all in the '03-'04 Cobra's and owners are seeing 450+hp out of them when pushed hard, and even 500+ after porting.streetstang03 said:ya, it looks good, but thats about it. not a big enough gain to fit the price tag. you're just paying for the Saleen name on it.
heatons
Gearbanger 101 said:There will of course be the argument from Twin Screw supporters to the effect that "if you want the best, you've got to pay for it" to justify the price difference.
Well, if you bought it for the low end torque and the looks, that's one thing....but you wouldn't need to add an intake and an intercooler unless you planned on cranking up the boost on the Vortech and building up the bottom e end of the engine. The Centrifugals work just fine without an intercooler unless you plan on spinning them up past about 10psi. 10psi with a Vortech blower puts you right on par horsepower wise with your standard 9psi Kenne Bell. Adding the intake and cooler just opens up the door to bring things up to a whole other power level.lgndracer said:Actually, if you compare apples to apples, they are pretty close in price. I looked for quite a while at all the S/C's before choosing one. I narrowed it down to a Mongoose kit, or a KB. If you bought a Mongoose kit for $3800, and added an intake and an intercooler, you would be very comparable if not higher than the KB. I chose the KB becuase I wanted the low end torque, as this is strictly a street car, and I think the twin screw/roots type S/C's look cooler.
Gearbanger 101 said:Well, if you bought it for the low end torque and the looks, that's one thing....but you wouldn't need to add an intake and an intercooler unless you planned on cranking up the boost on the Vortech and building up the bottom e end of the engine. The Centrifugals work just fine without an intercooler unless you plan on spinning them up past about 10psi. 10psi with a Vortech blower puts you right on par horsepower wise with your standard 9psi Kenne Bell. Adding the intake and cooler just opens up the door to bring things up to a whole other power level.
Yes and no. If you ran it with the recommended 8psi that MPH tunes the kit for, then there really isn't any advantage to adding the additional cooler. As long as the tune is conservative enough and the proper amount of timing is pulled and fuel is added, charge temperatures shouldn't be a problem. If you're going to push it into the 10psi+ zone, then sucking the heat away from the engine is going to help keep the short block alive in case you get a bad batch of fuel, or a really warm day or something. Either way, the additional intercooler won't do anything to aid in the durability of the blower itself. Since the cooler is bolted on downstream of the blower, the head unit itself is still going to spin just as hard and just as hot as it would if it wasn't on there. As a matter of fact, adding the intercooler to the system may raise the operation temperature of the blower itself a little, since it's now got the additional backpressure of blowing the charge through the cooler working against it. Often when adding a cooler to the mix, an already non-intercooled car will actually cost you about a pound of boost with the same size pulley, and you need to do a pulley swap (to a smaller one) in order to regain or surpass your previous levels. This holds true for all superchargers, not just the Vortech. The only way you wouldn’t have this problem, would be to cool with water/methanol. That way, there’s no after-cooler to blow through and create backpressure, just a fine mist of water.Seraphitia102 said:to your knowledge, would adding a vortech power cool contribute to added durability rather than just more horsepower?
Seraphitia102 said:to your knowledge, would adding a vortech power cool contribute to added durability rather than just more horsepower?
streetstang03 said:its all in the tune. just make sure you have a reputable tuner dyno tune your car and keep it under 420rwhp
are you more worried about the reliability of the blower or the engine??
Gearbanger 101 said:Yes and no. If you ran it with the recommended 8psi that MPH tunes the kit for, then there really isn't any advantage to adding the additional cooler. As long as the tune is conservative enough and the proper amount of timing is pulled and fuel is added, charge temperatures shouldn't be a problem. If you're going to push it into the 10psi+ zone, then sucking the heat away from the engine is going to help keep the short block alive in case you get a bad batch of fuel, or a really warm day or something. Either way, the additional intercooler won't do anything to aid in the durability of the blower itself. Since the cooler is bolted on downstream of the blower, the head unit itself is still going to spin just as hard and just as hot as it would if it wasn't on there. As a matter of fact, adding the intercooler to the system may raise the operation temperature of the blower itself a little, since it's now got the additional backpressure of blowing the charge through the cooler working against it. Often when adding a cooler to the mix, an already non-intercooled car will actually cost you about a pound of boost with the same size pulley, and you need to do a pulley swap (to a smaller one) in order to regain or surpass your previous levels. This holds true for all superchargers, not just the Vortech. The only way you wouldn’t have this problem, would be to cool with water/methanol. That way, there’s no after-cooler to blow through and create backpressure, just a fine mist of water.
I wouldn't worry about having a supercharger shortening your engine life dramatically. The only thing that's really going to affect how long your engine lasts is mileage and driving habits. The odd jaunt up to top end once and a while isn't going to cut it's lifespan in half.Seraphitia102 said:So if I were to add a non-intercooled Vortech SQ trim, would you know how much rwhp (estimate) my car would be? Also, ads in Mustang magazines say on adding a throttle body and plenum can add 8-30 rwhp. Would the 8hp gain be for an N/A engine and the 30hp be supercharged?
RedGTvert said:The Vortech is a tried and tested supercharger. Great reliability. Has good long term potential. Running in stock trim will get you in the 350-360rwhp area. If you are satisfied with this hp level, no need to add any sort of cooler. There are many people who can install in your area, no need to have anyone from MPH come and install.
Gearbanger 101 said:I wouldn't worry about having a supercharger shortening your engine life dramatically. The only thing that's really going to affect how long your engine lasts is mileage and driving habits. The odd jaunt up to top end once and a while isn't going to cut it's lifespan in half.
With the Mongoose 8psi kit and your current mods, I would think you're car will make in the 350-360rwhp range. The more you open up things on the intake and exhaust ends, the more power you're going to make. As far as throttle body advertisements go, take them with a grain of salt. Expect to see about a 10hp gain with the throttle body when used in conjunction with the blower alone...and more if you add the elbow and on high flow mid-pipe to the exhaust. A 30hp gain would be an example of the most extreme combinations and hardly what your average Mustang enthusiast is going to see.
If you’re going to buy one, go with the 75mm unit and if you’re patient, wait until you can afford to buy the matching elbow at the same time.
streetstang03 said:i would expect anywhere from 350-380rwhp w/ the vortech and a good tunelike i said though, i personally would go for the Paxton Novi 1000 mongoose kit from MPH though if you're looking for a centri blower from the research i've done over the years, it seems that the Novi has more potential than the Vortech S-trim for when you really want to turn the boost up.
good luck
You are correct. My kit utilizes an Eaton M90, which actually isn't considered a large blower by any means. To make up for this, I've decided to over spin the blower as well as taken care of all of the mandatory intake and exhaust upgrades to take advantage of this and recapture some of the efficiency range I'll be losing by spinning it so hard. I ported my heads and blower intake myself at home and also beefed up my intercooling system to keep ACT's (Air charge temperatures) at bay, since Eatons have a tendency to get hot when you over spin them. I’m expecting to see in the 350-370rwhp range myself along with a healthy dose of bottom end torque to bet my big car moving. I could have gone with a bigger blower and made a lot more power and I still may if I get tired of this car and decide to get another Mustang. I’ll likely just buy a ’96-’98 GT afterwards and pull the already built short block out of my Cougar and swap it out with the stock one in the Mustang before I sell it. I’ll likely then sell my Allen Kit then too, to help pay for whatever blower I decide to go with next.Seraphitia102 said:Thanks for all your great information. I take it that you do all your own mods?
I'll assume you meant to say "Novi 2000" and not "1000", since I'm not aware of a Novi 1000 based Mongoose kit and that the Vortech S-Trim will move a fair bit more air and make more power than the 1000. The 2000 on the other hand, is a much more serious contender when compared to the S-Trim and will fulfill almost anyone’s power needs on the street....or at the track, for that matter.streetstang03 said:i personally would go for the Paxton Novi 1000 mongoose kit from MPH though if you're looking for a centri blowerfrom the research i've done over the years, it seems that the Novi has more potential than the Vortech S-trim for when you really want to turn the boost up.
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