Basic Spark Info For Tweecer Noobs & ???

final5-0

Mustang Master
Apr 6, 2003
6,817
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DFW Texas
I can't even begin to say how many peeps ask me this kind of stuff.

I've been working with a guy on that other site :eek: and I thought it would be helpful to share with the guys on .....................

:banana: MY FAVORITE SITE :banana:

There has been a new crop of Noobs come to the site lately and all of us regulars know they have a tendency to NOT wanna use the S ..............

Well .................... I just won't go there :nono:

Sooooooooooooooo .............

Here is a little basic Spark Stuff for whoever is interested :shrug:

I decided to paste the stuff in this thread so you can just read it here :D



WHAT will make the timing go super high one minute.and then regular the next?
Im getting 50degrees of timing @ 2k rpms and detonating like crazy.
I let off the gas and back on..the timing goes to 30 and it dont detonate.

Same thing in wide open throttle.
I can gun it and it will give me an absurd amount of timing and detonate.
Then gun it again and it will run perfectly fine w/normal timing.

I use 94octane,
I also tried out chaning the scale load to stop the 94/95 factiry load problem
with my tweecer and it does it still.
And this is on a cool night or hot day it happens.OIL PRESSURE IS GOOD.
car is cool.etc etc.

I CHecked the balancer for rubber .....Base timing is at 10deg....fuel filter was just changed and fuel pressure is good.....maf is new and recleaned..
tps is .98v.....
Its 100% positive the timing is too high ..I see it in my data log on the tweecer shoot to 50 or higher while it detonates.
I really have no clue as to what it could possibly be.
If anyone has any ideas at ALL!!
PLEASE POST THEM.



That is not outta line for the non Cobra pcm's.

I remember when I ran the original t4m0 file with no spark values changed, I would see high 40's during light to mid level load driving conditions.

That is why you see the GT peeps complain about the ping thing and the Cobra peeps don't have any issues. Simply put ...... the Cobra file does not produce final values as high as the GT.

If you wanna knock the value down some your Tweecer is well up to the task.

My method of spark control is to only use the base table and kill all the others as I would not see consistent spark values in my dlogs until I worked with the one only table method.

Just dlog a drive that produces the ping thing and then lower the values in the load rows where you heard the ping.

Grady



Grady,

I thought by setting the load scaler to 0.it stops the load calculations?or disables it

I think I understand you..by you saying you didnt get an accurate/consistent spark reading untill you took them out.
In other words the timing is normally crazy on 95gt,the ping,going from 40*of timing wot to 50* or above and below withing the same 2 minutes of driving if "normal"?
Im going to make 3 different tunes,the way its suggested in this link.
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5400

and what you have just advised me to do.

There is also one more issue..I will post on the t wwecer board as well.
The tweecer does not command my eec like a master to a slave should.
like when my shift rpms were set to 4800 the car never shifted after 6200
rpm
sometimes it does sometimes it doesnt.

the maximum timing i see in any tweecer table is 50 deg.
My timing goes well above that on the twecer display.

thanks for the idea



The spark does jump around like that and there is nothing wrong with how that works other than it is a bit too high.

The other tables at times added spark and I got tired of messing with them so that was why I did away with them.

As for the load thing, that very thing is what our pcm's are based on so you just look at the amount of load during what ever your ping condition happens and adjust the base spark table accordingly.

Can't say anything about auto trans stuff as I have never dealt with it.

Grady



Grady,

Thanks again.I think Im gonna have to start paying you by the post.
Im gonna need 2 sets eyeballs to see the load and watch the road.
But I understand exactly.


The other tables you disabled by setting to 55 correct?
I would like to have an acccurate table too.If Im going in to boost its not good to have the other tables back door me with timing.
so is 55 the disable value?
and which ones would i disable?to be like you
Theres about 16 spark tables all together.
base spark table Im going to change by values of 2,is that good?

I really want to disable all the others first before I even change the spark base.
Because its creepy how it will detonate 1 second,and the next it does not.

how could this be a problem?if I do what you did and use only base timing?or is it completly safe?



Originally Posted by Grady,Thanks again.I think Im gonna have to start paying you by the post.Im gonna need 2 sets eyeballs to see the load and watch the road.But I understand exactly.


Here is a little trick I use for a situation like that. Just know that I use V1.20 so you may not be able to do it with V1.30. Have the dlog running and when you hear the ping, just hit the spacebar to stop the data stream. You then just focus on the data right before the end of the dlog.


The other tables you disabled by setting to 55 correct?I would like to have an acccurate table too.If Im going in to boost its not good to have the other tables back door me with timing.so is 55 the disable value?


Yes, 55 in all cells will kill the table.

I can't stress enough these 2 recommendations to you BEFORE you try the boost thing.

1) Get a wb and have its output show up in your CalCon dlogs.
2) Get proficient enough with your Tweecer that you can command at will your final fuel ratio & spark curve which you see as expected in your dlogs as positive proof or verification of your tuning changes.

OTOH ................ you may like changing head gaskets, lol.


and which ones would i disable?to be like youTheres about 16 spark tables all together.base spark table Im going to change by values of 2,is that good?

For a stable or consistent spark curve do this:

dizzy at 10
global scalar at 0
use base spark table only for tuning
kill altitude, borderline, & mbt spark tables
don't mess with any other spark tables at all

Just have several baseline dlogs of light load, mid load, & wot test runs before you make any changes. By baseline, I mean those dlogs will be what you compare your tweeced dlogs to.

I'd pull more than 2 out as that might not be enough to make a difference and if you pull too much you ain't gonna hurt anything but loose a bit of power. Try 6 and if that kills the ping thing, you may wanna put 2 more back in and try again ...... and maybe add in 1 or 2 more and try again..... you get the idea.

Just tune to what your combo likes .......
thats the Custom Tune part of Self Tuning.


I really want to disable all the others first before I even change the spark base.Because its creepy how it will detonate 1 second,and the next it does not.how could this be a problem?if I do what you did and use only base timing?or is it completly safe?


The problem about ping is it can damage pistons, heads, rods, etc.

I guess I have been SAFE for several years now using the info above with my combo.

Grady
 
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I have been messing around with killing diff. tables since I am having perf. issues.

My first tune was set like this...

boarderline set to 55's, MBT set to 55's and base and alt. tables set to match one another in the .6+ load range.

I did this as on the forums they stated that the base and alt. table work together and they need to be the same if you kill one the other gets funky???

I was S E A R C H I N G :D back into one page and found another way... and built a tune using this...

Boarderline set to 55's, Base set to were I want timing to be, Alt. table set to 2* more than Base table, and MBT to match the Alt. table.... I have not ran this tune yet or datalogged but will prob. will soon.
 
blksn955.o said:
I have been messing around with killing diff. tables since I am having perf. issues.

My first tune was set like this...

boarderline set to 55's, MBT set to 55's and base and alt. tables set to match one another in the .6+ load range.

I did this as on the forums they stated that the base and alt. table work together and they need to be the same if you kill one the other gets funky???

I was S E A R C H I N G :D back into one page and found another way... and built a tune using this...

Boarderline set to 55's, Base set to were I want timing to be, Alt. table set to 2* more than Base table, and MBT to match the Alt. table.... I have not ran this tune yet or datalogged but will prob. will soon.

You know what Greg

I myself used that method for the first couple of years since I got started in all of this self tuning stuff and had no probs with the spark curve not tracking what I commanded. The dlogs always showed that to be so.

I got tired of having to work with two tables every time I made a change.

I killed the altitude table and found that using the base table only gave the same results with no difference in driving conditions and my spark curve showed no difference in my dlogs as well.

Since that time I have ran across several peeps who have told me they also use only the one table.

Just something I've found from fooling around with this stuff I guess.

Grady
 
cool, I planned on running the two diff. types of tunes and switch between the two just to rule out the spark tables if they both feel the same...after all something in the tune is slowing me down if I ran 2mph faster with 6-8*less timing and stock fuel tables...I was more worried that commanded would not be there with the diff. style of timing controle.

I have a gut feeling it was a breakpoint/maf/slope non-compatability issue but want to make sure. After this timing test the only diff. is the diff. MAF/Breakpoint/Slope from the two diff. processors...