Best cam for a stock motor....need a stright answer

Paul Perreca said:

hearing this kind of thing pisses me off, cuz i'm doin an entire H/C/I and anew block, w/ all the supporting mods, and i'm told i'll make 280 - 300 horsepower, when all i had to do was save 2000 dollars and put in a custom cam and intake? i hope you dont know what ur talkin about lol

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I do know what I'm talking about, only from seeing it been done, but, as I said above, the drivability and fuel consumption may not make it something the average owner would want to put up with in a street application... and likely something very few would want to live with daily... but as a weekend toy... weeeee...

jackchan said:

trophy stock guys (some of them)
run #24 injectors, stock GT-40 heads with valve job and springs, a stock cam, 65mm tb, 77mm mass air meter, stock bottem end, GT-40 intake, shortie headers and make over 300hp! I know because I have a buddy who does it! I'll try to dig up his email from his last dyno trip and show ya!.......will edit soon!

here is the email I got!

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not that is isn't impressive, it is... but...
ask your buddy how much money he has in his 'stock' bottom end and 'stock' gt40's.
given that factory stock short blocks are in the $5000 range, and factory stock heads are in the $3000 range, it well explains how they make 300+hp with the non performance stock cam.

cleanLX said:

not that is isn't impressive, it is... but...
ask your buddy how much money he has in his 'stock' bottom end and 'stock' gt40's.
given that factory stock short blocks are in the $5000 range, and factory stock heads are in the $3000 range, it well explains how they make 300+hp with the non performance stock cam.

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Bingo....A lot of guys just hear the words "factory stock" and assume it's something simple they can do. Building those engines with all the tuning that is done to them is big bucks.

A little info. from Mr. Washinon for those interested...



Mike Washington
Registered User




Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 3 Spilling some beans.......

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX
that link says 351 for engine... ? Is that correct? Doesn't seem right.



They screwed up on the specs, the engine was 311 cubes


Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX
i'd sure like to know what the head experts do to E7's that is "no porting" that allows them to make such great power, and, why it cost ~3grand.
I'd also like to know how you put ~5grand into building a "stock" short block.




Its a combonation of parts:
Valve job is the main increase of airflow
Along with some trick lite-weight valves, with some more tricks done to them.
Real tiny springs, with equally tiny Ti retainers
Perfect Valve train geometry, custom trick pushrods, T&D shaft mounts

This same approach is taken into the shortblock, thus the $ value

These are "race engines" plain and simple(even though we have driven them on the street)......But a "budget" FS engine can be built and make real good power.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX
When Justin went 11.20, was that ford produced stock cam, or a "stock lift" cam, or had he gone all out on cam'n it?



Ford Produced Stock Cam.....Of course it was a cam that we had cam doctored and the installed with an adjustablele chain and index exactly were we wanted it.

NMRA rules dictate that we must use a stock lift and duration cam and give us very tight tolerances with-in which to work with. These numbers ensure that no one can use a NHRA type stocker cam, and have made all our power with a tried and true Ford Factory Cam. We have come across Ford Produced cams that are above(and there fore illegal) the NMRA rules for lift, duration, and lobe seperation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX
You racers talk in code ya know, and make it hard for us regular folks.
I know you got to pay to play, but, how about those of us that just wanna know? Common', spill all the beans. .

And don't get me wrong, you guys are haulin' the mail, just, there is more to those E7" than "un ported"... and I'm not saying anyone could run that fast with the heads/short blocks you guys run.

Again, you guys are great, and I'm excited to see some really knowledgable folks posting, but when you guys post your "partial-information" , it's hard for us regular folks to understand "how".

Now spill all the beans dagnabbit!



Again, the engine is a part of the whole combination, along with a race car chassis, race brakes, race wheels and all other good guy race car things. These cars may look the part of an everyday street car with the stickers off, but in reality these suckers are some of the most refined race cars in the free world.

If you have any specific questions feel free to e-mail me and I will help out as much as I can......

Mike Washington
2003 NMRA FS Champ, ET/MPH Record Holder
Team JPC **************
__________________
2003 NMRA Factory Stock #1
2003 NMRA Factory Stock ET an MPH National Record Holder

Team JPC www.**************

Team Latemodel Restoration Supply www.50resto.com

cleanLX,
thanks for that post. It is true that those cars are unbeliveably refined and nearly every possible thing on them are thought out and add to the times they run. I even heard people say they used something in the (zero) weight oil to keep down friction. There is absolutly no doubt that the valve jobs on the factory stock cars, have MAJOR seious valve jobs done to them. Some are "shaved" or milled and some are even angle milled therefore the intake having to be angle milled as well to seat properly. and that milling taking many thousands off the head, so much in fact that it probably wouldnt be a good thing to drive those cars on the street, same way with the valve springs, and light weight retainers/locks are another part of the equations. And they use back cut stems on the valves, and the valve actually has angle cut into the seat (valve side and seat side) to contour the best air flow possible. One of my favorite tricks is to run the Explorer "P" headers on E7's and Port the openings (of the headers) to the head and head gasket. Some people would argue with that.........I say since the runners of the header are longer than the regular E7 shorties they actually kinda use the extra length of the "P" headers as a semi-long tube header! Just my thoughts on that no actual proof to back that up. Some actually put heads, headers, intake all on Superflow bench and test all as one component and over all flow. Much can be learned if you use your head, and a good superflow bench...I have always like the challenge of going fast with less parts! .....Velocity is the key. Jack Roush and Robert yates claim to fame has always been ballenced runners in their intakes, and heads! Lightweight components rob less horsepower and rev quicker.....therefore using up less horsepower than something draggin you down.

anymore info you can give cleanLX feel free to post. I doubt I'll ever try to run class racing again....(anytime soon) but allthat info can come in handy when building a street sleeper as well. keep this thread going....and share some of everyones ideas. I dont mind shareing........as long as I'm learning along with the next guy!
Jack

Justin Burcham wen't 11.20? Was that in his factory stock car? Also, I read where Evan Smith ran 11.07 in his "factory stock" car making only 350rwhp.

Amazing times they are running. What is the factory stock record?

Foxfan88 said:

hell i say get a B cam.

i am rebuilding my motor and its going to be stock and why not do a cam, will sound better and have some grunt up top.... Sure it may HURT my times at the track, but it should actually feel faster on the street.

sure some lowend may be lost with my b cam, but thats why i got 3.90s

might as well do it whiles it easy. much easier to go back and swap heads, quite a bit harder to go back and swap a cam....

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always love this guys responses! with the heads off as needed in a heads swap your cam is right there. how the hell is it much harder to swap a cam with the heads off than to just change the heads?! well you do have to change lifters, and throw a timing chain on so maybe thats what your thinkin?

mattkimsey said:

Justin Burcham wen't 11.20? Was that in his factory stock car? Also, I read where Evan Smith ran 11.07 in his "factory stock" car making only 350rwhp.

Amazing times they are running. What is the factory stock record?

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Justin's car was not in "Factory Stock" trim when he went 11.20... it was very ligh and I think on slicks... possibly ran long tubes and open exhaust... don't remember but there were several alterations to the car that deviated from factory stock.
Evan smith did not run 11.07 in "Factory Stock" trim, he was racing in an NHRA stock class that allows a custom 0.500" lift cam along with the typical cobra intake 'touched up' gt40 heads/short block along with such things as pro shifted jerico and 28" slicks.

Both are still impressive, but were not in Factory Stock trim.

....found it nevermind