Big Block vs. Small Block

Shocwave04 · Dec 1, 2004

Hey guys I have a question. I don't remember where I heard someone say it, but someone said that to get that true Eleanor exhaust tone from the movie you would need a big block instead of a small block. I guess my question is, what are the advantages and disadvantages between like a Big Block 427 or a small block stroker 427? (besides weight)

Route666 · Dec 1, 2004

Fuel efficiency.

Ease of power production - More streetable with same power level as a smaller block. - Can run power brakes where the smallblock may not be able to.

No sacrifice in torque to produce power.

Deeper note on big block.

Apart from weight, that's all I can think of. Of course if you get an alloy Shelby FE block, weight starts to be a non-consideration.

EDIT: Bah I'm a dumb bum. You want to compare same cubes. With that, I'd say you're probably maxing out angles and stresses in a stroker whereas a big block is made to be big. All else would be similar, except weight.

Shocwave04 · Dec 1, 2004

haha its alright, Well so the exhaust note would pretty much be the same?

How much more money am I looking at if I were to go with a big block aposed to a stroker?

And one more question, lol, what mods are you looking at to put a big block in a small block mustang? (suspension? space?)

Route666 · Dec 1, 2004

Depends on the year I think. 67 and up fit big ones ok, except the 429, which needs some convincing to go in.

You'd need suspension and steering up front to cope with the weight, most likely just springs and shocks.

There are better experts on here about the 351W strokers and proper big blocks, I'll let them answer, I'm mostly theory, focussed on the 302 block. I don't think the cost would be all that different though, but I'd say the 351W parts are more abundant and easier and cheaper to get a hold of, not to mention lighter.

Hack · Dec 1, 2004

I can add a couple things.

Since the big block is heavier, your handling will suffer.

On a stroker, the block wears faster. Also the engine won't spin as fast.

390Fe · Dec 1, 2004

'67 to '70 mustangs were available with FE series big blocks (not counting the Boss 429 )
What this means to you is that there are production parts to do the swap - no custom parts needed for the swap. To do the swap you will need at least an FE Engine (ie 390- 428 - or a 427 if you are filthy rich), an FE C-6 tranny OR if you feel lucky a FE bellhousing for a C-4 - If it's a manual- well, that is a laundry list of parts. Almost manditory is a 9 inch rear - the 8 inch MAY survive for a bit behind the big block but torque hits hits hard and low and the driveline shock may kill it early. Your driveshaft may need modified OR you can buy a driveshaft just for the application(check your mustang vendors). Depending on the Heads on the engine you will need headers (most FE's you will find at a reasonable price will have the over/under exhaust bolt pattern - Hooker Super Comps fit BOTH)
And all this just to get the damn thing in...
Yes a 429 will fit but will require a bit more finnessing and custom pieces (read cost more)

In the end- If you HAVE a small block car STAY with a small block (this includes the 351w and 351 which will pretty much bolt in anywhere a 289 will.
You can spend more on the engine and get similar performance.. just less WOW factor.
It'd be cheaper to buy a big block car - probably -

tjm73 · Dec 1, 2004

I read someplace (and I don't remember where) that they used the 385 hp aluminum head 392 AND the exhaust sound from it, for the movie car.

draco_1967 · Dec 1, 2004

Nope, They used a real GT500 for the sound.

I was going through the same delema(big block vs. small block).

I ended up going with the small block 351W, just because I got a practically brand new blockfor $200 =)
What has been said already pretty much covers it. I don't think that the sound will be that much different.

krash kendall · Dec 1, 2004

Shocwave04 said:
haha its alright, Well so the exhaust note would pretty much be the same?

How much more money am I looking at if I were to go with a big block aposed to a stroker?

Are you seriously going to spend more than some of our cars are worth in an attempt to duplicate sound that was dubbed in a foley studio?

What colour is the sky on your planet?

302 coupe · Dec 1, 2004

I have read from several very reputable sources that the sounds used in the movie were from a beefed up big block 67-ish Vette with sidepipes. Having heard several such cars, I can definately believe it. The sound is the only thing I liked about Eleanor.

Basic recipe for that sound is: lots of compression, lumpy cam, big pipes, and straight thru muffs with no tailpipes. Deep and choppy.

Shocwave04 · Dec 1, 2004

no no I would never spend that much money just for a sound. My question was just if you could get a big block sound from a small block. And if so, why go witht the big block?

302 coupe · Dec 1, 2004

302 coupe said:
Basic recipe for that sound is: lots of compression, lumpy cam, big pipes, and straight thru muffs with no tailpipes. Deep and choppy.

.

krash kendall · Dec 1, 2004

Shocwave04 said:
no no I would never spend that much money just for a sound. My question was just if you could get a big block sound from a small block. And if so, why go witht the big block?

All lot of answers to your questions can be found on this site starting with the big/small block comparison found on this link:Big vs. Small

TRICKFastback · Dec 1, 2004

302 coupe said:
.

The way I look at it is:

Big Block are Boat Anchors, and Big Blocks are for people that cannot build horsepower out of a Small Block.

1320stang · Dec 1, 2004

Q: Was the car a real Shelby Mustang GT 500?

A: Yes and No, an original 1967 GT 500 was used for the motor sound affects, but not as a model for the movie car. The actual cars used were just 67 Mustangs, all customized to look like Eleanor in this movie. Most of the cars were 289 Mustangs with automatic transmissions. Originally the production designer, Jeff Mann who is also a professed car fanatic, proposed this car be a GT 40 then when that didn't fly he suggested a Shelby Series I Cobra. Eventually they settled on a 67 GT 500. According to SAAC, the 11 Mustangs were each chosen for specific duty. Some had highly modified suspensions for the high speed slides. Some were cosmetic models used for close ups and PR shots. Others, the ones crashed and crushed didn't even have engines. In Shelby American issue #70, the latest copy, the article explains that the car used for the close-ups of Cage actually had two steering wheels. Someone else was driving the car allowing Cage to focus "acting" rather than driving. The car used to record the sound affects is a 500 horsepower 428 1967 GT 500 with a great lumpy cam sound. The car is Brittany blue with white LeMans stripes. Corvette side exhaust pipes were temporarily added for taping the sounds of the car. The movie car had side pipes and side pipes produce a different sound than rear exhaust. George Watters, a long time SAAC member and top sound editor for Hollywood, obtained the GT 500 and took it to Willow Springs. He and his sound people spent six hours doing different things with the car, recording the sound of it for the movie soundtrack. So the only original GT 500 used in the movie produced the sounds you hear.

And no, a 427 stroker will not sound like a real 427.

Timmy · Dec 1, 2004

TRICKFastback said:
The way I look at it is:

Big Block are Boat Anchors, and Big Blocks are for people that cannot build horsepower out of a Small Block.

Whatever !!!!!!!!!!!!!

1320stang · Dec 1, 2004

Well, Glidden is getting 914 out of his best 414" SBF, so Trick is falling a little short himself.

My buddy Roger is running 8.40's with his 489" FE naturally aspirated in a 2600# car. My cast '65 crank, '65 block, '69 351w headed 289 ran 11.08 in a 3000# car w/ 9" slicks. Nobody races dynos, let me see what your car will do on the track, that's the real deal. Driving has a lot to do with it as well, I didn't get the 11.08, my best was a 11.16 or 17. The motor was in Roger's '69 Mach I and he drove the .08.

Oh, and as far as sounds, people in the know said my 289 didn't sound like a SB, most thought it was a Cleveland, then when they saw the engine, thought it was a 351, whereas I showed them the low deck block, then they thought it was a stroker, I couldn't prove them wrong there very easily.

Great68 · Dec 1, 2004

TRICKFastback said:
The way I look at it is:

Big Block are Boat Anchors, and Big Blocks are for people that cannot build horsepower out of a Small Block.

I dunno about that, there is no replacement for displacement. If there was, Top Fuel cars would be running small blocks.

blue66tang · Dec 1, 2004

1320stang said:
Oh, and as far as sounds, people in the know said my 289 didn't sound like a SB, most thought it was a Cleveland, then when they saw the engine, thought it was a 351, whereas I showed them the low deck block, then they thought it was a stroker, I couldn't prove them wrong there very easily.

Same hear, everybody thinks i have a big block in my car. Nobody can believe its just a little 289 with 12.5 compression making that sound. Personaly i dont realy like the sound of my car. This summer when i will finaly be able to do a little tuning on it, if it doesnt sound any better i think i might, put some flowmasters on it, or take the tail pipes off, and see if it sounds any better.
Gosh if i could post a vid, i would let you guys hear it.

67GTA-FB429 · Dec 1, 2004

TRICKFastback said:
The way I look at it is:

Big Block are Boat Anchors, and Big Blocks are for people that cannot build horsepower out of a Small Block.

sure. small blocks are for people who want to throw lots of daddy's money at an engine to get to the starting point of a big block.

Big Block vs. Small Block

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