Budget 351W swap/build thread

The_Mustang said:

How does your car feel when you punch it? Does it fall right off after a certain rpm?

And I need to know what cam to go with for now. Will a TFS Stage 2 cam have any clearance issues? If not, I'll go with that one along with the spring kit from TFS.

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my car spins the tires really easily and goes like a bat out of hell when i punch it. but i still haven't wound it out past 4000 rpm, mostly because it shifts and then it gets going so damn fast that i let out. it is an automatic with 3.27 gears.

and sorry, i don't know about the clearance on the TFS 2. what's the lift?

The_Mustang said:

Does anyone know about the stock heads on these late model 351's? Won't the GT40's flow better? If so, is it enough to justify swapping them onto this motor? I plan to port the crap out of the GT40's the best I can.

And I do plan to take this thing to a dyno day somewhere to see what it'll do.

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it might have the same E7s ours have stock. you could probably get the part number off them. obviously it's your choice, but i think i'd just leave the ones on it alone and focus on the other stuff. you can swap the heads in the car later if you want, but that's just my o

Awesome looks exactly like what i was looking at 2 years ago when i started my build.

As a side note I personally kept the 351 timing cover and water pump style. They are what was used on the pre 94 mustangs. I plan on putting the truck brackets on my 383 soon for 2 reasons.

1. They use the 3 Bolt Alternator that you can find 250 to 300 amp ambulance versions of.

2. The 94/95 A/C Bolts right up.

Only drawback is that now your pulleys may interfere with your electric fan. What i did was got a 3 pound mallet and "massaged" the inside of the radiator support to push the top of the radiator forwards.

Also since i don't have the brackets set so wide and pushed back like in the 94/95 cars it makes changing things like spark plugs a breeze.

Subscribing to see how this turns out

Chris

You could either modify your 5.8 rails or cut the crossover hose and clamp 3/8" line to it.

The_Mustang said:

Does anyone know about the stock heads on these late model 351's? Won't the GT40's flow better? If so, is it enough to justify swapping them onto this motor? I plan to port the crap out of the GT40's the best I can.

And I do plan to take this thing to a dyno day somewhere to see what it'll do.

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Heres a old head flow chart. From what I remember the newer 351 truck heads have the smaller 302 valves not the ones listed in this chart like the early heads. So yes the GT40's will flow better than the stock 351 heads

P41538 Image Large Photo

Also if I remember right all 351's have the 28oz balance....302's had the same until 1982 when they switched to the 50oz balance on the 302's.

The TF stage 2 cam has 542", .563". Probably not enough clearance....you would def have to check P/V with that much lift on stock valve releif pistons.


Just for an Idea what Saleen did starting in 1994. He used a Lightening shortblock and flycut the pistons for a bigger cam. I don't know the cam spec's....but have heard it's like a T/F/stage 2 cam. (I am hoping to get a stock cam to check it for spec's. #77 had a aftermarket cam when I bought it and #58 is all stock with 54k mi and I don't want to take it apart it runs fine!)

So he flycut the pistons, cam, edlbrock alum heads, 65mmTB, mass air, roller rockers, Explorer intake with the upper cut and a section added, then they are extrude honed, shorty headers, 2 1/2" cats and a Borla cat back and a new computer I have heard they are out of a Bronco or Van with a 351 and I think he put's a tune on it.....I have never pulled #58's out to check, #77 had no ford computer it had an old DFI system when I bought it I have since upgraded it.

They were rated at 371hp 422ft lbs, 172mph. With a Vortech and 8lbs the torque went up to around 480ft lbs and the HP to 480 also. In 1996 he put T/F heads and a different tune and the N/A cars were 400hp, 432ft lbs, supercharged were 510hp and 490? i think torque. The tune was off on the S/C cars until later years so alot of motors blew.....also later on he started using forged internals not the lightening shortblock. He did have a company in Texas assemble the engines and then shipped them to Calif. Also he put in a 3550 Tremec then in 1997 switched to a 6sp. Sure he could have got more power BUT he had to warranty the cars also.

MM&FF took a 1996 N/A car and got it in the 12's with slicks and got it up to 165mph. They also got a supercharged car with a slipping clutch to run 11.3's in the 1/4mi. The S/C cars trapped around 122mph in the 1/4mi. I have also heard that the 0-60 times of the N/A vs S/C were very close......traction is a problem

Back in 1997 or 1998 Road and track tested a S/C car and said it walked away from a Viper. Vipers were rated at 450hp at the time, they had 17" wheels while the Saleens had 18". S351's were the S**T and I drooled everytime I read about one.....but I was broke and NEVER thought I'd ever own one!

The_Mustang said:

Thanks for the great post! So if I wanted to run the TFS stage 2, could I flycut the pistons to make it work? Any write ups on fly cutting the pistons? I'm sure it has to be easy with the heads off the motor. Any special tool I can get to do it?

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I know Isky makes a tool that you use your heads as a guide to notch the valve relief's. You can rent them from Isky for $40. I have heard that these do work!
I have never used them. On stock pistons I have never gone over .520 lift and have always had clearance. Aftermarket pistons have reliefs cut in them already.

Click on "Tools & kit's" then click on "Notchers & Cutters"
http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html

The stock pistons probably have a big dish for low compression, You can always put the cam in and check for P/V clearance then go from there.

Heres a link to some Flat top Sealed Power pistons with big releifs for cheap on ebay. I got some for a friends 302 for $99 a few years ago. Great deal!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-...s?hash=item1c0913bbf7&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116

You might be getting into a lot of work and $$..more than you think. If it helps at all.. In terms of heads, pro-comps, shorties got me to 358rwhp but the pro-comps were at max flow. So thats roughly 430+HP with my trans. The typhoon intake was cheap but wouldnt flow past 4600 rpm and now it pulls to 7000 with the victor. Big difference.

The pro-comps were prolly better than a gt40 and I think the cost me $600 -800 new. The typhoon intake may flow well for a 5.8. Of course when I went to the better heads and other upgrades I went 100+rwhp past that though. But then its back to $$$ which is off topic of this thread.

Heres a pic of the battery tray mod. Also a pic of a hold down that works perfect for a Optima battery I think it will work with stock also ...it's from I think a 90's Corvette. I will find out the year for sure.

Hope this helps
Tom

Mark,
I know this is a budget swap and I think the Ford F cam has I think 6 deg more duration than the E and the lift is still low so you would probably be fine on p/v clearance and they are only about $30 more than the T/F cam.....just a thought.

Why not get a custom cam from Ed Curtis? He made me one for my twin 358w and I love it. Nice and Lopey

str8stang036 said:

Why not get a custom cam from Ed Curtis? He made me one for my twin 358w and I love it. Nice and Lopey

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I think that doesn't fit the OP's goal of a very low budget. Not putting words in his mouth, but I believe that he has said that in the future, he plans to do a major buildup with boost, at which time a custom cam would be in the mix, but for now, no.

The_Mustang said:

Doesn't saleen set their engines back 1" and down a little further? If so, then that could be why you only needed a slight modification to the tray.

Yes, F cams are pretty easy to find used too.

question: Since the F cam doesn't have a bunch of lift, could I get away, at first, running my stock valve springs on the GT40 heads? Also, since my motor won't make any kind of top end power, as has already been pointed out 100 times, I won't have any business revving it that high, which means I won't have any valve float happening. Am I on the right track here?

And I like the 114 LSA of the F cam, should play really nice with the T4MO computer, correct?

Thanks for all the good advice!

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True they set the engine lower and back by notching the K member....but this pic is with a Grigg's K member. The motor is in the foward position on the K member...the member has a 1" setback also but the bellhousing (Lakewood) hit the trans tunnel. I do have it spaced down about 1/4". The notch in the tray just clears the pulleys. So if the engine is in the stock location with this K member, then it should work.....so I dunno?? On Thursday when I go to my buddy's shop I will ask what the guy who did a 351 swap on his 94 did.

Yes I also thought about the F cam used.... I saw one on Ebay for around $100.
You Might be able to get away with the stock springs just check for coil bind......I would try to replace them ASAP.

I dont' remember the spec's but yeah a 114 should help......Grady would be able to answer that one better than me. I'm no expert on the stock computer.

I spent years collecting parts for my 351w build because im my opinion, I wanted the"351w" to feel, sound, look like what a 351w is for me. It was built with future upgrades in mind.

Isn't a very low budget 351w basically the same a 302 with a blower? My opnion

str8stang036 said:

I spent years collecting parts for my 351w build because im my opinion, I wanted the"351w" to feel, sound, look like what a 351w is for me. It was built with future upgrades in mind.

Isn't a very low budget 351w basically the same a 302 with a blower? My opnion

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Yes and no. It will be typically more powerful and reliable than a stock 302 with a basic blower. Using grady's rule which I have kicked around quite a bit for what I consider a street car..:fairyfight: ... and finally sided with a 1:1 ratio being the norm of 90% of cars I see.. flame suit on: .. A street H/C/I 351W will put out roughly 350rwhp vs a 302 H/C/I 302rwhp vs a blown stock 302 @ roughly 302rwhp $ for $. Now if you go more radical H/C/I 302, you can build it to the NA power of your mild street 351 but it still wont have the low end. If you put a blower on a H/C/I 302 then its no comparison to a mild 351 build..but then we are apples and oranges.

Do you like the Trick Flow "R" Series Intake. I had it on mine once before, you can swap the upper to their box intake if you go boosted in the future

The_Mustang said:

Chris, why don't you yank that typhoon off your car and sell it to me for a good price, you know, since your plates are all turned in and everything (lol). Seriously though, you could probably use a better flowing intake anyway, right?

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yes, it could use a better flowing intake, even though i don't i rev it to where it would actually take advantage of it.

and i have been going back and forth about taking the plates off ... i kinda need to be able to drive it in case someone is interested in it and wants to take a test drive

i would yank the PP off mine for ya if i had another intake to put on it

maybe we can do something creative like you contribute <X> dollars for a new intake for me, and i ship my PP to you after the swap ...

of course i need to be sure it will still fit under the hood