Fox Can I Run A Dr With My Stock T5?
- Thread starter PakstinN
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All that being said....if you can repeat a 14.2 time after time, and your a bracket racer, leave it alone. In bracket racing consitancty is the holy grail.
im not sure if at this point I will make an actual hobby of being at the track bracket racing every weekend. the overwhelming majority of my runs have been a 14.2x-14.6x unless I go run after run after run, obviously once the car starts heat soaking it gets slower. I just really wanted to see a 13 out of it on a street tire and once I get the right driver mod maybe a high 12 with slicks and the right suspension.
I wish I had more time to reply to this thread(have to go to work).
Your trap speed is low for what power you should be making. I have questions there. What is your timing set at? Have you checked codes etc? If it's running fine I suppose you're good there but something seems amiss. I would expect 100-103mph.
For your setup I'd buy some dot legal bias ply tires. I ran 13.8 with completely stock setup with some M&H dot tires. You can launch fairly aggressive without 6k dumps. More like 4500 and slip the clutch aggressive but smooth..and you'll have 13 sec slips all day every day. Also not super hard on trans. The T5 has more of an issue with power shifting than on the launch. I e broken a few and an axle before lol.
Your trap speed is low for what power you should be making. I have questions there. What is your timing set at? Have you checked codes etc? If it's running fine I suppose you're good there but something seems amiss. I would expect 100-103mph.
For your setup I'd buy some dot legal bias ply tires. I ran 13.8 with completely stock setup with some M&H dot tires. You can launch fairly aggressive without 6k dumps. More like 4500 and slip the clutch aggressive but smooth..and you'll have 13 sec slips all day every day. Also not super hard on trans. The T5 has more of an issue with power shifting than on the launch. I e broken a few and an axle before lol.
You're a better man than me, and all those I've hung out with at the track. I've yet to see better than a high 1.9 on street radials with near stock Fox at the track... and those were very rare.
Tip of the hat.
I can follow up a little personal comparison-
I've ran multiple foxes at tracks over the years. Most were stockish to a little nitrous combos. Nitto drag radials are a pita to consistently launch. Can you get better at it? Sure. But the tire is too stiff imo for a lower powered manual. Bias ply are damn near idiot proof and just more consistent.
Every transmission I broke was during powershifting and was done on the street as much as the track. The axle I broke was with a bias ply tire that I launched at 5500rpms and it dead hooked on a slick. It was almost instantly broke lol.
I've ran multiple foxes at tracks over the years. Most were stockish to a little nitrous combos. Nitto drag radials are a pita to consistently launch. Can you get better at it? Sure. But the tire is too stiff imo for a lower powered manual. Bias ply are damn near idiot proof and just more consistent.
Every transmission I broke was during powershifting and was done on the street as much as the track. The axle I broke was with a bias ply tire that I launched at 5500rpms and it dead hooked on a slick. It was almost instantly broke lol.
With my first combination, I ran a [email protected] on Nitto Drag Radials and stock suspension using 3.55 gears. I don't have the timeslip to see what my 60' was, but I remember it not being stellar. Perhaps, it was a 1.9 at best. In fact, I know Tony Defeo went 13s in a stock fox body coupe on factory gatorbacks at 98 mph in the article "Five Liters of Fury" from cars illustrated. For you, at 3 mph less, I have to believe 13s are easily possible with a decent launch. Also, your 2000 ft DA is costing you about 2 mph.
I can't speak to how anyone else has done it, but for me to go 1.83 on a stock sized Eagle GT, it took 4.10 gears, 270 rwhp, and the following basic suspension stuff:
"Lakewood traction bars," which just look like LCAs to me, but I don't know the difference
BBK Uppers
Lakewood 50/50s in the rear
Rear B-Springs (but stock fronts... makes the car look like the back is sagging, but I suppose helped keep some weight back there on the launch).
When I ran that time, I had a look around in several mustang forums, and did not find anyone else who got that time or better out of stock sized street radials. Granted, I don't think too many people bother to do all of that suspension and gearing stuff just to run stock radials, but I was just curious.
That said, those stock street radials didn't hook worth a damn on the street. 1st gear could rarely stick the power, even rolling into the throttle. 2nd gear sometimes broke loose, too. Powershifting from gear to gear broke the tires loose for a bit on every shift. It was a hell of a lot of fun, though!
A third combo I had with stock suspension and 4.10 gears and about 320 rwhp went 1.9s on Nittos. I believe I cracked into the 1.8s a couple of times. So even with more power and the same gear, it wouldn't hookup like the car with street radials at the track. I guess suspension parts work. Of course the track conditions were different, too.
I can't speak to how anyone else has done it, but for me to go 1.83 on a stock sized Eagle GT, it took 4.10 gears, 270 rwhp, and the following basic suspension stuff:
"Lakewood traction bars," which just look like LCAs to me, but I don't know the difference
BBK Uppers
Lakewood 50/50s in the rear
Rear B-Springs (but stock fronts... makes the car look like the back is sagging, but I suppose helped keep some weight back there on the launch).
When I ran that time, I had a look around in several mustang forums, and did not find anyone else who got that time or better out of stock sized street radials. Granted, I don't think too many people bother to do all of that suspension and gearing stuff just to run stock radials, but I was just curious.
That said, those stock street radials didn't hook worth a damn on the street. 1st gear could rarely stick the power, even rolling into the throttle. 2nd gear sometimes broke loose, too. Powershifting from gear to gear broke the tires loose for a bit on every shift. It was a hell of a lot of fun, though!
A third combo I had with stock suspension and 4.10 gears and about 320 rwhp went 1.9s on Nittos. I believe I cracked into the 1.8s a couple of times. So even with more power and the same gear, it wouldn't hookup like the car with street radials at the track. I guess suspension parts work. Of course the track conditions were different, too.
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Timing is set at 14°..I did notice when I plugged in the spout connector the thing went from 14° to almost 20°..is that normal?
I haven't run code but since I took off all the eve stuff my check engine light is always on
Yeah, the timing is normal, but at your power level, I'd prolly give her a tune up. New plugs, wires, rotor, fuel filter. I don't know what "eve stuff" is, but I'd get a handle on that check engine light before anything.
When mine was stock, it went 13.97-13.99 at 99.x-100.0 with 2.0x 60's. I was pretty new to the game so car probably would have benefited from driver mod.
With 3.73's, off road H and 235/60-15 drag radials it went 13.2's at 100.5-100.8. with low 1.8x 60's.
That was all at sea level... on a good track prep'd for points races.
Drove the car from NB Canada to Phoenix AZ and with no changes to the car it was a struggle to go 13.9's at 97 with high 1.8x-low 1.9x 60's at Friday night drags... 2000'+d/a... questionable track prep.
Car dyno'd 218hp/276tq...
DOT's, skinnies, 4.10's, long tubes and a 76mam (dyno'd 232hp/292tq) the car went 12.96 at 104 with 1.72 60's... would have been a 12.6 car easy on my "home" track.
Track and air have a lot to do with all of our "examples".
With 3.73's, off road H and 235/60-15 drag radials it went 13.2's at 100.5-100.8. with low 1.8x 60's.
That was all at sea level... on a good track prep'd for points races.
Drove the car from NB Canada to Phoenix AZ and with no changes to the car it was a struggle to go 13.9's at 97 with high 1.8x-low 1.9x 60's at Friday night drags... 2000'+d/a... questionable track prep.
Car dyno'd 218hp/276tq...
DOT's, skinnies, 4.10's, long tubes and a 76mam (dyno'd 232hp/292tq) the car went 12.96 at 104 with 1.72 60's... would have been a 12.6 car easy on my "home" track.
Track and air have a lot to do with all of our "examples".
That's good driving, there. Great point about track conditions. So many people just look at car x's magazine time and see it's faster than car y's time by 2 tenths and assume way too much about what that really means.
There is a sensor out of range is my guess. Get a code reader and run the codes. There is a sticky on this site that tells you how to do it and how to fix "problems"
I bet this alone might pick you up some mph just in "fixes"
Also on stock tires (if you continue to use at track) don't launch above 2k. Slip the clutch just off of idle and work up until you find the sweet spot.
What rpm do you shift at? Are you using a stock tach? They often are not 100% accurate. What fuel system do you have? I.E. what fuel pump,inj,maf,cai and size of tb. I would start off at 5500rpm shifts and go up and down to find what the car likes. Just keep good records and experiment.
I bet this alone might pick you up some mph just in "fixes"
Also on stock tires (if you continue to use at track) don't launch above 2k. Slip the clutch just off of idle and work up until you find the sweet spot.
What rpm do you shift at? Are you using a stock tach? They often are not 100% accurate. What fuel system do you have? I.E. what fuel pump,inj,maf,cai and size of tb. I would start off at 5500rpm shifts and go up and down to find what the car likes. Just keep good records and experiment.
I shift right around 5500 rpm when I feel it starting to level out
Stock tach yes. But I have a good timing light that reads rpm and the tach is actually very close according to the timing light
Oh! There is your issue! Your stock tach is definitely going to be off at higher RPM more than it is at lower RPM for you're probably looking at with your timing light. I've never seen a stock tach that was accurate at the top of the power band. Also, I believe that the best way to get a sense of where you should shift is to put the car on the dyno and look. I'd be happy to help you with it if you posted the graphs. You are likely to shift at over 6000 RPM to optimize the combination you listed. I think you're giving up all your mile per hour right there.
It's actually the opposite. You'll feel it level off, as you put it, well before you should shift. Stock foxes should shift at about 5500. They make peak power at around 4400 rpm. Your engine probably makes peak at around 5300. You should be carrying it out to 6000 at the minimum, unless there's a problem at high rpm.
While I understand what Fastdriver is saying I will try and clarify my opinion on shift points.
Your individual optimal shift point can be higher or lower than what you "feel" is the right shift point. You need to experiment with this. It's fine if you start at 5500 but at your next event go higher and see what the timeslip says. Add a shift light if you can. It will make you much more consistent also.
Your individual optimal shift point can be higher or lower than what you "feel" is the right shift point. You need to experiment with this. It's fine if you start at 5500 but at your next event go higher and see what the timeslip says. Add a shift light if you can. It will make you much more consistent also.
it gets complicated... it's not as much about where the car makes peak power (lays over) as it is about your shift recovery.
power under the curve... you want to use as much average power as your trans gearing will allow, so, often times with n/a cars that are weaker down low, it means taking it past peak power so upon the rpm drop associated with the next gear you are still using the max. "power under the curve".
My current combo makes peak power at 6400, but it's drop off is slight, and it's bottom end is hollow (relatively speaking)... it likes shifted at 7200rpm... almost 1000rpm over peak.
power under the curve... you want to use as much average power as your trans gearing will allow, so, often times with n/a cars that are weaker down low, it means taking it past peak power so upon the rpm drop associated with the next gear you are still using the max. "power under the curve".
My current combo makes peak power at 6400, but it's drop off is slight, and it's bottom end is hollow (relatively speaking)... it likes shifted at 7200rpm... almost 1000rpm over peak.
