can I swap in a c&l mass air to replace my bad Pro-m meter & use the same chip?

Couple things.
No you can't run a different meter.
A c&l is a piece of crap.
You should not be buying a chip mail order, it's a complete waste of money.

Get your car to run right with no tuning equipment or chip at all.
If you still feel for some reason that you need a program, take the car to an sct tuning shop and have it dyno tuned.

Does a tune do anything really beneficial on a foxbody? No.
But seems to make some of these guys feel warm and fuzzy inside.
If you car doesn't run right before a chip, the chip is just a bandaid, i've seen some of the wildest combos ever run just fine on a stock fox computer. Numbers into the mid 600s at the wheels.

So what you are saying is that my A9S computer will see my 36 Lbs injectors and adjust the fuel to match the 9 Lbs of blower boost that I am putting into a 5.0? I am running the QuarterHorse chip and with out it I would blow the block up in minutes ... There is only so much a stock comp will handle without dyno tuning ... I want to see the changes that are made to a stock computer and fine tune it as I run the car .. SCT is a waste of money for the modified 5.0 .....

Opposedodie said:

So what you are saying is that my A9S computer will see my 36 Lbs injectors and adjust the fuel to match the 9 Lbs of blower boost that I am putting into a 5.0? I am running the QuarterHorse chip and with out it I would blow the block up in minutes ... There is only so much a stock comp will handle without dyno tuning ... I want to see the changes that are made to a stock computer and fine tune it as I run the car .. SCT is a waste of money for the modified 5.0 .....

Click to expand...

You can run the stock computer until at least the mid 600's at the wheels. Some claim into the 700's, but that's not something i have seen in person.
I know this for a fact.
Chips and dyno tunes haven't been around that long.
What do you think guys did before they existed? Everyone blew up their car?
Are you under the impression 9lbs of boost is alot?

The right meter and the right injectors and the 5.0 computer can pretty much handle anything the average guy could throw at it.

If you think without a dyno you can "fine tune" anything on the stock computer, you are out of your mind. Most guys make their car worse, not better.
How do i know? A good friend is a 5.0 pioneer and has owned a mustang shop since i was old enough to drive, and i'm 36.

2000xp8 said:

Couple things.
No you can't run a different meter.
A c&l is a piece of crap.
You should not be buying a chip mail order, it's a complete waste of money.

Click to expand...

I agree on all counts, but I don't know if I would go as far as to call C&L 'crap'... it's just more sensitive to intake tract variations... not the best design out there...

2000xp8 said:

Get your car to run right with no tuning equipment or chip at all.

Click to expand...

Yep,
You can't tune a broken setup.
If you have a system failure somewhere, it needs to be fixed first!
Start by pulling codes and correcting any issues that come up.

2000xp8 said:

Does a tune do anything really beneficial on a foxbody? No.
But seems to make some of these guys feel warm and fuzzy inside.
If you car doesn't run right before a chip, the chip is just a bandaid, i've seen some of the wildest combos ever run just fine on a stock fox computer. Numbers into the mid 600s at the wheels.

Click to expand...

LOL
How would you know? You ever tuned a fox body? oh, ya... you just know a guy that tried tuning and didn't get anything out of it...

Fox ecu's are pretty adaptive, but to say that a tune is worthless until 600hp is, just plain silly.

Here is a recent thread on eectuning.org
EECTuning.org • View topic - How much more power have you seen with a tune on a stock car
Some of these guys are professional tuners, some are hobbyists... either way, conscensus seems to be that there are gains to be made even on a stock or near stock setup...

decipha said:

tuning a late 90s cobra usually nets 30

a stock fox/sn typically 25

a stock 03-04 cobra 60

stock lightning 40

stock gt500 80

stock 2011 15


now fuel economy depends on the tuner, some folks like myself actually take the time to make it right and lean the piss out of an engine if it likes it, i got no problem letting a car roll at 1.16 lambda if it likes it, lately i've found myself letting adaptives learn when warming up, then forcing open loop above 200ect at cruise only and demanding lean mixes for fuel economy, i gained 11mpg's on my daily driver, from 19 to 31

Click to expand...

393strokervert said:

I ordered a SCT chip from JMS last week because my Tweecer went bad on me (either went bad or it ditched the tunes I loaded because it was running fine then stalled out & wouldn't start back up, I turned it off & it started & ran, turned it back on & it would shut off) I gave them all my motor upgrade info & got the chip... it ran decent for a day or so but now it appears my Pro-M mass air is bad.... it makes no difference whatsoever whether the mass air is plugged in or not, it runs the exactly the same. that being said, my SCT chip is tuned for a Pro-M 80mm meter with 30# injectors, can I install a C&L calibrated for 30#'s & it work or do I have to get another Pro-M meter so it will match the chip? Thanks in advance for any info.

Click to expand...

tunes have been known to get dropped... did you search on eectuning for possible answers? Could just be a bad connection somewhere...

Unplugging the MAF tells you NOTHING.
You need to start with pulling codes, and working what comes up.

No you can't install the C&L in place of the proM

The resident expert has told you (and I would highly recommend heeding his advice) to dump the codes. So with that in mind, here's how...


Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.





If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.

The unplugging of the maf with no change, does signify a bad meter usually, although sometimes the problem is deeper.

When the ecu experiences a sensor condition that is 'out of range', it goes into an alternate control mode.
If you are already in an alternate control mode, then the ecu is not going to respond the same as if it were simply controlling in closed loop operation...

Unplugging sensors is no way to diagnose a problem.
check codes.

It's good you no longer have access to the tweecer software, as it was junk to begin with... BinaryEditor is best software available right now...
This thread *might* give you some ideas on the dropped tune from the tweecer...
EECTuning.org • View topic - QH losing connection while datalogging

good luck,
jason

It may not apply anymore, butI second the intake tract sensitivity. I've had two C&L vehicles and my two current cars have the Pro-M. The C&Ls did not seem to like the 90 degree bend on the 93s intake tract, but did great on the 97s. The location and shape of the sample tube seems to read false if their is turbulence in the air. If it is relatively straight when entering the C&L, it works just fine. I honestly think too many people repeat the "C&L is crap" line. It utilizes a factory sensor made for the factory computer. Its the manner that it samples the air that can be a problem. No worries. Sounds like the tweecer is your largest problem. Good luck and I hope you get her fixed.