Car turns off when im driving?

[lunaelement]

CAR WILL NOT START

I just ran into this problem last sunday, here is what I have replaced on mine and in the order that I replaced them. I hope this can help one of you guys out cause my s @#$#$%#$% T ! is running again and I am one happy mutha @#$%$^ !

ok, first of all, the symptoms started when my car had a hard time starting from a cold start. I would turn on somethimes and then it would have a hard time starting. I would unplug the spark plug wire that goes from the coil to the distributor cap and would have to clean it every now and then and the car would start.


1) I replaced the coil > it worked ok but the problem started again after a week or so

2) I replaced the distributor cap and with an MSD cap > same crap

3) I replaced the spark plug wires with ford racing 8mm, wire > no change.

At this piont my car started to make a funky clicking sound when I would hit a bump just right. like sound you get when you unplug a spark plug and set it close to the spark plug to see if you getting fire. I would hit another bump and it would go away. A few days later the car started to turn off on me while I was driving. At first I put the clicking noise that I woud get when I hit a bump just right and it turning off and throught that it could be an exposed wire>

4)I checked all wires but nothing seemed to be exposed

the car started to do this more often > a few times I was able to pop the clutch an the car turned on just fine and I kept on driving up untill this past Tuesday. The car would turn off on me while driving and now I was not able to pop the clutch and the car would have a harder time turning on once the car was sitting still for a bit.

THIS IS WERE IT GET'S INTRESTING!

I replaced the coil again thinking that I could have gotten a bad one! it worked ! for about 4 to 7 starts and it happened again. the car would not start.

I jumped on the forums and saw that some people were suggesting replacing the distributor. I almost bought an MSD distributor for about 300 + dollars when I decided to go with the motorcraft brand, I thought with my luck it would not work and I would be out 300 more dollars

5> installed new distributor > failed > the same issue, < I marked the old position old distributor to make sure I would not jack that up. KEY THING here ware that we still had no spark , spark was going into the coil but not out of the coil>
thought what are the chances that I could have gotten series of bad coils from autozone. I went to Oriley's and got thier 52 dollar coil > BAMMMM !

my car started with out a problem on the first try.

Been driving it to work and it has not shut off on me either.


I hope this helps some one, just based on "MY OWN" personal expirience, I will not be buying coils from autozone again. I will not go cheap when it come to the coil again.

 

[1994Vib.RedGT]

I bought a new coil wire, and it ran fine for about 3 hours, then completley died on me on the side of the interstate, wont even start again now, I see a new distributor in my future

 

[1994Vib.RedGT]

I needed my ****ing car tonight for a date. I went to auto zone at 8:30am, bought the distributor, part # 30-2888, I took it to the dealer because they are the only ones around here I feel like I can trust since Im at school, they call me back, and say the distributor DOES NOT ****ING FIT. W.T.F. they said it doesnt reach the oil pump or something like that, I dont remember exactly because I was so ****ing pissed to hear this, am I missing something? is there some secret distibutor I need? Im tired of the auto parts stores ruining my day because the part they give me for my car doesnt actually fit my ****ing car

 

[vp6799]

That should be the right one. I bought the same one and it worked fine for me. Maybee there pullin your chain so you can buy one from them instead???

 

[m0l0]

+1 on the PIP


Just buy the sensor like 30 bucks Ford OEM, and tops 30mins of work with the right tools


For reference on future searchs a little how-to :


1.- Mark the position of the Distributor to the engine ( where you tighten the dist bolt )
2.- Mark the position of the Distributor inside ( Open the cap )
2.- Move away the Dist. Cap.
3.- Unbolt the Dist.
4.- Carefully remove the distributor ( if you do it too fast you can screw or loose the oil pickup inside the engine not fun at all )
5.- Grab a gear puller from autozone or buy one like this one:
http://www.nextag.com/Danaher-Tool-6-2-524834248/prices-html?nxtg=6bd80a1c051e-4A983D7689F254F7
or this :
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_13315_13315
6.- Put the puller on the more long position to match the dist gear.
7.- Push out the gear pin with a nail for example with a little hammer help ( this is not so complicated )
8.- Pull the gear with the puller
9.- Remove the dist. shaft & the top of the Distributor plastic ( 2, bolts phillips screwdriver )
10.- Replace the PIP sensor ( it just have one position so no brainer here )

And the steps back to put the stuff back on there , really is a 30 mins job tops

 

[Pokageek]

I had a BRAND NEW distributor! And the PIP was BAD .... ARG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talkabout a diagnosis nightmare! But we figured it out and put ina new PIP. Hope this helps....anyone reading this thread.

p.s. BTW I understand that the dist I have (oem type) works better than most aftermarket. Watch out for overpriced aftermarket and advertising gimmicks - no kidding.

 

[m0l0]

Good to hear you solved the issue!

 

[1994Vib.RedGT]

wait? so the new distributors dont have new pips? I was under the assumption they did? if so I feel like a retard for just spending 300 bucks

 

[MontrealFive0]

hey,
glad to hear (well, not really i would wish this on anyone) that people are going through what im going through. However, im pretty sure i solved the problem today.

After going through plugs, wires cap rotor i decided to change the coil. Took the main wire off, went to take the secondary connector off and....uh oh, the wires and metal connectors came right out of the plastic piece, the part you would slide off. Well i found out that the tabs inside were broken, and the metal tabs corroded. I cleaned them off, and just connected them to the metal connections inside the coil. No more hesitation at 3700 rpm, and no stalling. Unfortunatly, i ordered a accel dis. and new ford ignition module. Dont know if i'll put them in. Bah, just thought i would let everyone know what i found out, check your connection at the secondary coil connection ( tug the 2 wires lightly to see if they're in the plastic properly) Good luck, and thanks again to everyone!

 

[1994Vib.RedGT]

I got a new dizzy and so far no problem

 

[lunaelement]

Car wont start now

Guys , I spoke too soon. The car ran fine for a whole week and it crapped out on me on Saturday. Now it wont turn on peroid! I go to school Mon. thru Thursday so I wont be messing with it until next weekend. I better leave it alone this week bofore I think about trowing match to it.. LOL. Man you have to have a little humor cause I was so pissed off yesturday.. but really- the thought did run accross my mind.

I will let you guys know what I do this weekend.

the only other part that I have not replaced is the ignition module, I will track that down today. Looks like it might just be a dealer parts thing. Orilleys nor autozone carry it.

 

[lunaelement]

GOOD INFO DON'T KNOW IF TI APPLIES TO YOU BUT CHECK THIS OUT !

I was browsing the net when I ran into this article on know ford TFI modules that caused the cars to stall while driving.

Click on the link

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=1216&scid=185

 

[lunaelement]

I copied and pasted the information from the site.

On December 9, 2002, after five years of litigation, a settlement was reached in a national class action in California, Howard v. Ford Motor Co., that reimbursed owners for ignition module failures that occurred within the first 100,000 miles, and extended the warranty to 100,000 miles for any vehicle still under this mileage.

Reimbursement claims: For most consumers, the deadline to file a reimbursement claim was October 18, 2002. Over a million consumers in California failed to receive proper notice of the settlement and have a longer time to file for reimbursement. For more information on the settlement, go to www.tfisettlement.com.

100,000 Mile Warranty Extension: Consumers whose vehicles are on the list at the bottom of this page have the right to a free repair of a Ford TFI module that fails within 100,000 miles. Ford has issued instructions to its dealers on the warranty extension but many consumers report that dealers seem to be unaware of the extension. Consumers who encounter problems should print out the following dealer instructions and show it to their dealer to establish their right to a free repair under this warranty. Ford 100,000 Mile Extended Warranty Policy

Ford TFI Module Failure
Twenty-two million Ford vehicles made from 1983 through 1995 have defective ignition modules that may cause the vehicle to stall and die on the highway at any time. Failure at highway speeds can cause the driver to lose control or even result in a stalled vehicle being hit by a truck. Some models had failure rates as high as 90%. According to Ford, two-thirds of the failures were of the "die on the road" type.


The models affected have ignition modules mounted on the distributor and are listed below. When its temperature goes above 257 degrees Fahrenheit, the module is likely to cut out and cause the vehicle to die on the road. When the vehicle cools down, it can be restarted and will run until it again exceeds the design temperature. This is a hard problem to diagnose because by the time the vehicle gets towed to the dealer or sits in the shop waiting for repair, it has cooled down and no cause can be found for the stalling.


During the 1980's, NHTSA conducted five investigations into stalling in Ford vehicles. During those investigations, Ford withheld documents from NHTSA that would have shown a common cause of stalling -- failure of the Thick Film Ignition (TFI) module mounted on the distributor when its temperature rises above 125 C and cuts out, causing the vehicle to stall on the highway. There are over 10 million vehicles still on American roads today that suffer from the same readily-correctable design defect that can cause the engine to stop abruptly and unexpectedly, at any time and at any speed, leaving the driver without power-assisted steering or brakes and the vehicle disabled. Vehicles with the distributor mounted TFI module have a 9% higher fatal crash rate than those with a different module system.


Ford Motor Company has known about this problem since it began, yet concealed it from consumers and government regulators for well over a decade. Just as in Firestone tires on Ford Explorers, a prime instrument in Ford's cover up was secrecy agreements in product liability lawsuits. Over 900 product liability lawsuits have been filed against Ford on these vehicles with protective orders and confidential settlement agreements entered in many.

In a landmark decision on August 29,2000, in Howard v. Ford Motor Co., (Case No. 763785-2, Alameda County Superior Court, California State Judge Michael Ballachey announced he would order the recall of 1.8 million 1983-95 Ford vehicles in California with defective ignition modules that fail and cause dangerous stalls on highways. Judge Ballachey's ruling is the first court order of a recall in the United States outside NHTSA. In a stinging indictment of Ford Motor Co., Judge Ballachey found:

Ford withheld responsive information from NHTSA that it was obligated to provide. [p.5] It was not for Ford to decide what "safety" meant, or what levels of warranty returns obligated it to report to the EPA. Ford's responsibility was to respond to legitimate government inquiries with appropriate information so that an independent evaluation could determine the presence or absence of a problem. [p.6] Ford failed to meet its obligations to report safety related defect information to relevant governmental agencies and, by so doing concealed vital information related to vehicle safety from the consuming public. This fraudulent concealment. . . constitutes a violation of both Civil Code sections 1770(a)(5) and (7). [p.8]

The problem is caused by the thick film ignition ("TFI") modules, a key ignition-system component that Ford installed in more than 22 million vehicles it manufactured and sold in the 1983 through 1995 mode years. The TFI module regulates the electrical current that fires the air-fuel mixture in each of the engine's cylinders. To reduce costs, Ford installed the TFI on the distributor, one of the hottest locations under the hood. But because the TFI module is sensitive to heat, its mounting location creates an inordinate propensity for the TFI module to fail due to thermal stress. Making the problem even more insidious is its phantom nature. A TFI module can fail on an intermittent basis when hot, then function again when the engine cools, without leaving a trace of physical evidence that the TFI module had failed.

Rather than bearing the expense of moving the TFI module to a cooler location away from the engine—a solution that Ford engineers recommended to management for years—Ford decided to employ a less costly solution: to leave the module on the distributor, but make it last long enough to function during the warranty period, thereby forcing consumers to bear the cost of post-warranty failures that Ford knew would continue to occur in large numbers. As a result, over 13 million replacement TFI modules (which are designed to last for the life of the vehicle without maintenance or repair) have been sold to consumers at a cost of nearly $2 billion.

Despite an extraordinary number of complaints from consumers, Ford managed to conceal the TFI problem from government regulators. From 1983 through 1989 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) conducted five separate investigations into stalling complaints by Ford customers. In response to these investigations, Ford concealed what it knew about the TFI problem and persuaded NHTSA to close each investigation without taking action. As a result of the class action, NHTSA opened an investigation in 1997, in which it concluded that Ford had withheld key documents during earlier investigations. By then, the 8-year statute of limitations on NHTSA's authority to order a recall had expired, preventing NHTSA from taking any meaningful enforcement action.

Ford continues to deny that TFI-related stalling causes a safety risk. According to Ford, TFI failure causes the vehicle to buck, hesitate, and experience other "driveability" symptoms that provide a warning that the TFI module is about to fail. But Ford took the exact opposite position when it attempted to excuse its failure to report to the Environmental Protection Agency and the California Air Resources Board over 1 million TFI modules (which EPA and CARB deem "emissions-related" components) that were returned under warranty. In direct contradiction to Ford's contention that TFI module failure does not pose a safety risk because TFI-induced bucking and hesitation provides plenty of warning, Ford claimed that TFI module failure cannot affect air quality because such failure occurs suddenly and without warning.

Having concealed the true nature and scope of the TFI defect from NHTSA, from EPA, and other regulatory agencies, Ford then used its bargaining power to keep secret the information about the TFI defect in the only other context in which the truth could air: private civil litigation. Given the intermittent, phantom nature of the TFI problem, few people ever discovered that TFI failure was the cause of their injuries, and even fewer sued because of it. When personal-injury plaintiffs did discover what Ford knew about the problem, Ford paid millions of dollars in settlements requiring lawyers to return hot documents, remain silent about what they learned from those documents, and refrain from assisting others in similar litigation against Ford. Just as in Firestone tires on Ford Explorers, the TFI product liability cases against Ford involve tragic injuries. In Phan v Budget Rent a Car & Ford Motor Co., there were two deaths, one quadriplegic and four other injuries when a 1990 Mercury Sable stalled at highway speeds.

In the recall of Ford Explorers for Firestone tire tread separations, then Ford President & CEO Jacques Nasser repeatedly told the American public that "Your Safety Is Our Top Priority." Yet in Howard v Ford Motor Co., Ford told the court it didn't know what safety was. As Judge Ballachey observed after hearing the testimony of top executive including its former CEO Harold Poling, its former Vice Chairman Louis Ross and Vice Presidents Robert Transou and Helen Petrauskus among others:


Ford's dissimulation reached its nadir in the testimony of Bob Wheaton, Ford's witness designated as most knowledgeable about safety issues when he insisted that "safe is too subjective" and denied knowledge of any "written definition of what safe is within Ford Motor Company." Other Ford executives were similarly evasive when pressed on the question of whether or not a failed TFI module, under any circumstances, presented an unreasonable risk of safety. [P. 5].
The following vehicles have distributor-mounted TFI modules:
1984-85 Escort/Lynx (1.6L)
1984-86 Escort/EXP TC (1.6L)
1986-88 Escort/Lynx (1.9L)
1985-90 Escort/Lynx HO (1.9L)
1984-90 Tempo/Topaz (2.3L)
1985-94 Tempo/Topaz HSC (2.3L)
1984-89 Mustang/Capri (2.3L)
1984-86 Mustang SVO TC (2.3L)
1984-86 Mustang/Capri/Cougar TC (2.3L)
1984-85 Mustang/Capri (3.8L)
1984-94 Mustang/Capri HO (5.0L)
1984-88 Thunderbird/Cougar TC (2.3L)
1984-87 Thunderbird/Cougar (3.8L)
1984-91 Thunderbird/Cougar (5.0L)
1986-87 Taurus/Sable (2.5L)
1986-95 Taurus/Sable (3.0L)
1986-87 Taurus/Sable (3.8L)
1986-87 Continental (3.8L)
1984-92 Mark VII (5.0L)
1984-89 Town Car (5.0L)
1984-85 LTD/Marquis (2.3L)
1984-86 LTD/Marquis (3.8L)
1984-94 LTD/Marquis (5.0L)
1985-87 Aerostar (2.3L)
1986-90 Aerostar (3.0L)
1984-89 Ranger (2.3L)
1986-91 Ranger/Bronco II (2.9L)
1984-90 Bronco (4.9L)
1984-91 Bronco (5.0L)
1984-85 & 1988-91 Bronco (5.8L)
1984-91 F-150 Pickup (4.9L)
1984-91 F-150 Pickup (5.0L)
1984-91 F-250 Pickup (4.9L)
1984-91 F-250 Pickup (5.0L)
1984-85 & 1988-91 F-150 Pickup (5.8L)
1984-85 & 1988-91 F-250 Pickup (5.8L)
1984-85 & 1988-91 F-350 Pickup (5.8L)
1984-91 E-150 Van (4.9L)
1984-91 E-150 Van (5.0L)
1984-85 & 1988-91 E-150 Van (5.8L)


Click here to see the court's final decision, in Adobe Acrobat Reader (.pdf) format

 

[HISSIN50]

Yep, that's the reason the TFI modules were moved on 94 stangs.