Car will not crank, 4 banger swap

BK_CAULEY

it's built for speed not longevity, woman
Dec 26, 2006
0
10
49
Thomasville, ga
ok as some of you know i just finished my 4 banger to v-8 swap. i started the car up by jumping the relay the other day with a jumper and it started up and i set the timing and all that good stuff. then shut her down. well today i go out to crank it up and try to use the key and get nothing. if i jump the relay noe it just spins over and wont start. but i have the check list for that and thats another story and another question. imi just curious why it wont crank using the key now?

i hope someone has some answers for this because i dang sure dont have the money to take it to a shop.

oh yea and when i turn the key forwards i do not hear the pump come on either now. and have replaced the fuel pump relay with a good one.
 
No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…

Check battery, terminal connections, ground, starter relay switch (also known as solenoid) and starter in that order. The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a know problem causer. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Avoid them like the plague...

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .5 volts across a connection indicates a problem.
See http://www.fluke.com/application_notes/automotive/circuit.asp?AGID=1&SID=103 for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across grounds.
fig-7.gif


1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter relay next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it starts, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss &Stang&2birds
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See http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195963.gif for 88-90 year cars
See http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195964.gif for 91-93 year cars.
See http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-95 model cars.

6.) The starter may be hung, loosen up the bolts that hold it on, and give it a good whack with a big hammer. Tighten up the bolts and try again.

7.) Pull the starter and take it to Autozone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.

Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang
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Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or upgraded high torque mini starter.
attachment.php
 
sometimes with the key in the on position, but not running, i could hear my pump prime when i turned the distributor until it hit something. dunno why it did that, but it did. how old is your fuel pump?
 
couple things

did you get the right v8 harness for your model year? There are several harnesses and they can cause problems when trying to interchange

have you checked the inertia switch in the back? should be on driver side in trunk/hatch area with red button

Was the car originally an automatic or straight drive also what about the donor v8 car harness was it automatic or straight there are minute differences

I would investigate your fp problem first and see whats going on there.
 
couple things

did you get the right v8 harness for your model year? There are several harnesses and they can cause problems when trying to interchange

have you checked the inertia switch in the back? should be on driver side in trunk/hatch area with red button

Was the car originally an automatic or straight drive also what about the donor v8 car harness was it automatic or straight there are minute differences

I would investigate your fp problem first and see whats going on there.

my car is a 91 and the harness i have is out of a 1991

inertia switch is good. i checked that

im not sure if the donor harness was a automatic car or not.
 
Fuel Pump Troubleshooting for 91-93 Mustangs

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on.
It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running,
find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to
ground.
attachment.php

If the fuse links are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure –
remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the
core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. A tire pressure gauge can also be
used if you have one - look for 37-40 PSI. Beware of fire hazard when you do this.


No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – press reset button on the inertia switch. The hatch
cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the
voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch

B.) Fuel pump Relay: On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter.

C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect
for fuel escaping while pump is running.

The electrical circuit for the fuel pump has two paths, a control path and a power
path.

The control path consists of the computer, and the fuel pump relay coil. It turns
the fuel pump relay on or off under computer control. The switched power (red
wire) from the ECC relay goes to the relay coil and then from the relay coil to the
computer (light blue\orange wire). The computer provides the ground path to
complete the circuit. This ground causes the relay coil to energize and close the
contacts for the power path. Keep in mind that you can have voltage to all the
right places, but the computer must provide a ground. If there is no ground, the
relay will not close the power contacts.

The power path picks up from a fuse link near the starter relay. Fuse links are like
fuses, except they are pieces of wire and are made right into the wiring harness.
The feed wire from the fuse link (pink/black wire) goes to the fuel pump relay
contacts. When the contacts close because the relay energizes, the power flows
through the pink/black wire to the contacts and through the dark green\yellow
wire to the inertia switch. The other side of the inertia switch with the
brown\pink wire joins the pink/black wire that connects to the fuel pump. The fuel
pump has a black wire that supplies the ground to complete the circuit.

Remember that the computer does not source any power to actuators, relays
or injectors, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That
means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to
ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.


0900823d80195960.gif

diagram of the wiring for 91-93 cars.

Power circuits:
Power feed: Look for 12 volts at the pink/black wire (power source for fuel pump relay).
No voltage or low voltage, bad fuse link, bad wiring, or connections. Remember that on 92
or later models the fuel pump relay is located under the Mass Air meter. Watch out for the
WOT A/C control relay on these cars, as it is located in the same place and can easily be
mistaken for the fuel pump relay.

Relay: Turn on the key and jumper the ECC test connector as previously described. Look
for 12 volts at the dark green\yellow wire (relay controlled power for the fuel pump). No
voltage there means that the relay has failed, or there is a broken wire in the relay control circuit.

Inertia switch: Check the brown/pink wire, it should have 12 volts. No 12 volts there, either
the inertia switch is open or has no power to it. Check both sides of the inertia switch: there
should be power on the dark green\yellow (inertia switch input) and brown/pink wire
(inertia switch output). Power on the dark green\yellow wire and not on the brown/pink wire
means the inertia switch is open. Press on the red plunger to reset it to the closed position.
Sometimes the inertia switch will be intermittent or will not pass full power. Be sure that
there is 12 volts on both sides of the switch with the pump running and that the voltage drop
measured across the switch is less than .75 volts.

Pump wiring: Anytime the ignition switch is in the Run position and the test
point is jumpered to ground, there should be at least 12 volts present on the
black/pink wire. With power off, check the pump ground: you should see less
than 1 ohm between the black wire and chassis ground.

Control circuits:

Relay: The red wire for the fuel pump relay coil gets its power feed from the ECC relay.
No 12 volts here, and the ECC relay has failed or there is bad wiring or bad connections
coming from it. The ECC relay is located on top of the computer, which is under the passenger’s
side kick panel. It is not easy to get to, you must have small hands or pull the passenger side
dash speaker out to access it.

Relay: The light blue/orange wire provides a ground path for the relay power. With the test
connector jumpered according to the previous instructions, there should be less than .75 volts.
Use a test lamp with one side connected to battery power and the other side to the light blue/orange
wire on the fuel pump relay. The test light should glow brightly. No glow and you have a broken
wire or bad connection between the test connector and the relay. To test the wiring from the
computer, remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector.
It has a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place. Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector.
With the test lamp connected to power, jumper pin 22 to ground and the test lamp should glow.
No glow and the wiring between the computer and the fuel pump relay is bad.

Computer: If you got this far and everything else checked out good, the computer is suspect.
Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector located under the hood.
Probe computer pin 22 with a safety pin and ground it to chassis. Make sure the computer
and everything else is connected. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position and observe
the fuel pressure. The pump should run at full pressure.
If it doesn't, the wiring between pin 22 on the computer and the fuel pump relay is bad.
If it does run at full pressure, the computer may have failed.

Keep in mind that the computer only runs the fuel pump for about 2-3 seconds when you turn
the key to the Run position. This can sometimes fool you into thinking the computer has died.
Connect one lead of the test light to power and the other lead to computer pin 22 with a safety pin.
With the ignition switch Off, jumper the computer into self test mode like you are going to dump
the codes. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position. The light will flicker when the computer
does the self test routine. A flickering light is a good computer. No flickering light is a bad computer.
Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector located under the hood.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)
for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Fuel pump runs continuously: The fuel pump relay contacts are stuck together or the light blue/orange wire
has shorted to ground. Remove the fuel pump relay from its socket. Then disconnect the computer and use
an ohmmeter to check out the resistance between the light blue/orange wire and ground. You should see
more than 10 K Ohms (10,000 ohms) or an infinite open circuit. Be sure that the test connector isn’t
jumpered to ground.
If the wiring checks out good, then the computer is the likely culprit.

Prior to replacing the computer, check the computer power ground. The computer has its own
dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to
it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a
black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire. You'll find it up
next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
 
Do you have your grounds hooked up?

1 ground is from the head to the firewall.

1 ground is from the ECM to the a post..(right hand side)

1 ground from the motor mount to the left frame rail

2 ground on the left fender apron by the battery

2 grounds on core support....(1 on each corner)

Do you have the fuel pump selenoids buy the mass air flow sensor plugged in? The 91-92 harness should have two little boxes there.
 
ok i just tried the fuel pump test as described by jrichker and i got nothing. tried the jumper wire to ecm ground.

and i have all of my grounds hooked up, well almost all of them. i dont have the one from the motor mount to the framerail.

and the relay is hooked up. could it be bad? is there any test for this?
 
i just figured out the relay under my mass air harness is not the fuel pump relay its the a/c relay so where is the fuel pump relay at?

the guy i got my v8 harness from said it was for a 1991. could the relay be in another location?

i used the v/8 harness he sent me and my old v/8 ECM and everything plugged up fine.
 
you dang right they are. i just went out and swapped the relay now i have fuel. so thats one problem fixed and thanks for that. now why wont it crank :mad:

when i first started the swap i noticed the harness under the seat didnt have the relay just a cap. so i swapped in a relay just to be doing it. i thought nothing happened. thought it was for a power seat or something. oh well pump is coming on now.
 
My problem was the neutral safety switch under the clutch pedal when I dropped my new motor in. It wasnt connected! The only way to start the car was by jumping it

yea mine was working fine when i pulled the 2.3 though. and i checked it was plugged in. my speedo cable and reverse lights on tranny arent plugged up but that shouldnt effect anything should it?

im gonna plug them up tommorrow and see what happens
 
Sounds like a pinched wire or bad ground/something may be grounding out. Take the time to wrap every wire up w/ electrical tape. Ive seen quick careless swaps end up takeing 2 months after completion because of a grounding wire

Just my .02
 
My random thoughts:

1. Faulty ignition switch?
2. Have you checked all the fuses since last running it? Might've popped one at some point by accident.
3. Double-check all grounds, connect/fix any that aren't 100% kosher.
4. Neutral safety switch - are you sure it's working NOW? (Wire going to/from it may be pinched, connection may be loose, switch may be funky.)
5. Starter relay on fender?

That's all I can pull outta my relatively empty head at the moment... :shrug:
 
Sounds like a pinched wire or bad ground/something may be grounding out. Take the time to wrap every wire up w/ electrical tape. Ive seen quick careless swaps end up takeing 2 months after completion because of a grounding wire

Just my .02

i removed all of the wire loom from th eharness and re-wrapped it with high temp electrical tape. just so this wouldnt happen and i am trying to take my time. patience is the number one thing for this kind of swap.

here is all of the old wire loom off the harness.

P1010833.webp


My random thoughts:

1. Faulty ignition switch?
2. Have you checked all the fuses since last running it? Might've popped one at some point by accident.
3. Double-check all grounds, connect/fix any that aren't 100% kosher.
4. Neutral safety switch - are you sure it's working NOW? (Wire going to/from it may be pinched, connection may be loose, switch may be funky.)
5. Starter relay on fender?

That's all I can pull outta my relatively empty head at the moment... :shrug:

ignition switch might be the problem but it was ok.
i have checked all fuses, there good
went through all my grounds with svt32vdohc
im not positive its working now
checked relay its good, even swapped in new ione just in case last night.

thanks for all the replies guys. maybe this thing will get fixed soon.