Collapsed lifter? I really need some advice!

[fordman54935]

Here's the story:

Over the winter I installed Thumper E7's with the upgraded springs and a Tmoss ported lower intake along with all new gaskets and seals for the whole engine. I reused the Comp cam that was already in the car and also reused the original pushrods and lifters. Also note that my car has 55K miles.

Ever since the first time I started the car, there has been a clicking or tapping sound that sounds the same hot or cold, varies with RPM (quieter at idle, doesn't change under load (though you can hear it when deccelerating - can't hear it over the exhaust). So far I have checked the following:

1. Exhaust leaks - Flange and collector bolts tight, new fel-pro gaskets.
2. Spark plugs - all tight.
3. Air pump - Bypassed the pump, noise still there.
4. Fuel injectors - all make a ticking sound (normal I assume).
5. Valve cover to rocker arm clearance - no issues with oil baffle or ribbing (already clearanced with Dremel tool)
6. Rocker arm installation (pedestal mount) - I must have gone through this setup 4 times already, all rockers torqued to 22 lb/ft within 1/2-3/4 turn after zero lash, also no clearance between valve stem tip and rocker arm (checked with feeler guage while running).
7. Oil flows through rockers nicely.
8. Rocker arm to valve spring retainer clearance is not an issue.
9. Thermactor tube at back of heads is sealed properly.


I have relentlessly searched the threads here and at the Corral and have tried every single suggestion so far, so what do I have left to try? I don't even mind tearing back into the engine to replace lifters if needed, but I just want to make sure that is the problem before I tear into it.

I've also listened everywhere on the engine with my stethescope and I believe the noise seems to be coming from the top/center of the engine.
What do you guys think?

And by the way, the car runs great but its just this ticking that is keeping me up at night!

 

[jrichker]

if you don't mind getting oil all over the place there is a way to check the valvetrain for excessive slack.

Remove the valve covers & start the engine. With most EFI engines, you'll need to remove & re-install the upper manifold to do this. With the engine idling , put your thumb on each rocker on the pushrod side. If there is excessive slack from a bent pushrod or colapsed lifter, you will feel a jolt as the valve opens & closes.

Have fun cleaning up the mess when you are done.

 

[Sicarius428]

I was able to determin one of my lifters was dead last week while adjusting the valves. I was able to push down on the pushrod and feel the spring bottom out without any resistance.
Kevin

 

[1991vert]

i tried to start my car w/ the valve covers off to find out where my ticking was coming from and the car wouldn't even turn over. i re-adjusted the rockers after that and it got a lot better. i adjusted them before that like 6 times.

congrats on your find.

 

[89roadster]

Are you sure they're getting oil - how did you check?

 

[fordman54935]

I know oil is flowing through the pushrods and rocker arms because I ran the engine with the valve covers off, and watched the oil flow through each of them and onto the valve stem tip while they flicked oil all over my headers and dripped down the sides of the engine block. That was fun to clean up

 

[fordman54935]

I almost forgot:

While I was running the engine with the valve covers off, I used my stethescope to listen to each rocker arm by putting the scope on each pedestal bolt, and didn't hear anything that sounded abnormal, they actually kinda sounded like sewing machines going, just a slight ticking sound.

The sound that I'm hearing seems to be isolated to one cylinder or valve or lifter, and if I listen to the lower intake with the stethescope I can hear a small amount of ticking going on.

Also, once the lifters bleed down (on the base circle of the cam)I can turn the pushrods pretty easily with my fingers, but there is no up and down motion at all. The rocker arms have a slight amount of side to side play on the roller trunnion, which I assume is normal because the rocker arm is captured on both ends by snap rings.

 

[89roadster]

Have you tried switching the injectors between different cylinders to see if the sound moves with the injector?

 

[BlownInjected]

I think I also have a similar problem. I think its a bent pushrod or a collapsed lifter. A couple of weeks ago I think I over-revved my engine and floated the valves while I was doing a burn-out, ever since the it seems that the engine is a little sluggish and is'nt as responsive as it was before. Could doing what I did bent a push rod or damaged a lifter?

BTW-Fordman you could just put a gear-drive in and then you wont be bothered by that ticking!LOL!!!!!!!! Those little noises get to me too!!!!!!

 

[fordman54935]

Well guys, I am almost 100% sure my lifters are fine, I tried pushing down on the pushrods and none moved down with the effort I was able to put on them. I had my dad listen to the car last night and he is sure that it is some kind of valvetrain noise. I'm starting to wonder if I have enough preload on the lifters, and if a slightly longer set of pushrods is needed. I can turn the pushrods on the base circle of the cam with almost NO effort with my fingers, it just seems that there should be some resistance there. What do you think?

 

[fordman54935]

Anyone?

 

[DMAN302]

Sounds like you've got it figured out..may need to change out pushrod lenght and adjust valve train again.

 

[tmoss]

Here is what I just found on my new 1.7 rockers that would not quiet down no matter how many times I checked and readjusted preload (stud mounts). I pulled the noisiest rocker and two quiet ones. I found the black oxide pushrod on the noisy one had the oxide worn off where it passed the guide. Then I checked the trunion bearing side-to-side movement of the rockers. The noisy one had .012" of play and the quiet ones had .004" play. Needless to say, this is not something many guys would check - so heads up guys.......

The result is a rocker that makes noise sliding side to side and a pushrod that slaps the guise plates - no way to shut this up other than replace it.

 

[nosmatt]

good point tom.

as for should you be able to turn a pushrod after the rocker is torqued, no...... thats the whole idea of zero lash. spin the pushrod, tighten the bolt till the pushrod will no longer turn, note position of wrech, keep going untill you hit ~ 20-22ftlbs. if that is within 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn, good to go.

i ASSume you have no shims under the rockers??????
if so, well, the solution is easy

good luck

 

[green]

when you pushed down on your pushrods did you have the rocker arms off? or were the rocker arms still tightend down. i have a annoying ticking noise to, but mine only does it once and a while when on start up, then 3 to 4 minuts later it goes away.

 

[1991vert]

a little ticking on a cold start is normal. just wait for the oil pressure to stabalize.

 

[MarSaleenMustan]

i dont know if this may have something to do with it, but did you make sure to put back the lifters/rods/rockers to the places they originally came off of?

 

[green]

its not just on a cold start though, it even does it after the engine is at normal running temp. i forgot to mention that it does it when its hot to.

 

[fordman54935]

All the valvtrain components went back on exactly where they came from, including pushrods end for end. My rockers do have a slight amount of side to side play, but I assumed it is normal because they are captured on each end with snap rings. This valvetrain made NO noise with the stock heads on. I also checked and have plenty of clearance between the pushrods and the holes in the heads.

I see that Jegs has a set of pushrods that are 6.272" versus the stock 6.250"(already measured mine). Think this would do the trick? I dont want to be in the situation where I'm hanging valves open and burn one of them.

 

[tmoss]

Actually, the 6.272" is the factory spec length.